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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and we've got another

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great evening for you for those of you

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who are actually seeing me on video you

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can see behind me this is what we're

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going to be seeing not this in

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particular but i'm going to be on the

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road

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until the uh well let's see the 20 i

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think the 19th is the last show that i'm

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going to have on the road

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but then i go out again i'm going to be

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on the west coast and hopefully on the

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19th it'll be with gary nolan at

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stanford

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uh let's see um and then i come back i'm

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in town for one show and then off again

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to phoenix for the mufon boot camp yes

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the investigative boot camp i'm going to

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be involved in that i just want to see

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how it works and all that and then i'm

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going to be doing a

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show right from phoenix with a couple of

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other friends added to the mix

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and move on people as well as i know uh

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matthew roberts i'm asking him to show

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up and a few other people in phoenix i'm

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going to get a group there hopefully so

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that'll be on the 19th next week uh we

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have dr bob gross he's going to be on uh

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again i'll be traveling you'll see me in

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hotel rooms and that's the way it's

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going to be for the next few weeks

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let's see our uh guest tonight

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uh neil nixon uh from england he is he's

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a a skeptic he's a clear-headed skeptic

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and if uh you know we may disagree on a

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few things but uh but it'll should be a

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good discussion and i've never shy away

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from skepticism because i think that

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keeps

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the ufo field uh

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you know more or less straight you know

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i showed last week that i had um

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what i thought at first was the ufo i

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filmed it this was a few weeks ago

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and so

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i put the clip out there just to get

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some answers from people and send it to

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mark d'antonio right away

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he said well it looks like a drone it

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acts like a drone it's probably a dot

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dot dot

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drone

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so uh but it did do some weird flashing

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i'm going to see mark when i'm out in

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phoenix i'm going to show it to him

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firsthand so we can take a look right on

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my phone the whole footage i didn't post

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the whole footage online so i'm going to

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show them the whole footage just to get

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one more opinion on that but anyway uh

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what i'm getting at is skepticism is

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good and it always has been good in the

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ufo field because

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um you know

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they're saying it only takes one

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real ufo to change everything so and i

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do believe that's true

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like we all that's all we really need is

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just one

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solid

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uh case of evidence

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and uh it's

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definitely fleeting it's hard to catch

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uh the videos

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uh

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we've never had an actual ufo that we

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could actually walk around and kick the

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tires on and hopefully

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um

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hopefully we'll get answers and we'll

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have more evidence to compel the rest of

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the world

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and the rest of the people that are

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interested in this topic and you know

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try to figure out what on earth they are

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i never say as people that know me a

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long time listeners i never use i never

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say that i know what they are uh whoever

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it is that's visiting us because i don't

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have a clue and i still feel like if

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someone's out there and they're telling

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you

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who and what they are for sure um run

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the other way because i don't think that

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anyone

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as far as i know no one knows for sure

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exactly what they are possibly

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extraterrestrial

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possibly a lot of them can be explained

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but some of them can't be and that's

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what we're going to be discussing a

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little bit of that tonight as well the

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blog this week a ufo landing and a

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meeting with eisenhower another great

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one that's a very interesting story and

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uh by charles lear check that out on our

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website podcastufo.com

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anyone can support the show you can do

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that over there as well it's on our our

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patreon page is linked and for two

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dollars or more a month you can help us

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out help us continue

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and i think uh that

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seems like i had something else to say

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but i can't remember what that is so for

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now i'm going to bring in our guest

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welcome to the show neil

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hello martin um yeah we will

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i was listening to your introductory

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remarks there martin so clear-eyed

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skeptics

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somebody i can't remember that was about

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20 years ago that was a book review on

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the second ufo book i did somebody

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described me as that so uh yeah if we

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could agree with that that suggests that

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i'm saying so that's probably a good

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start in it um and i'm with you totally

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on the other thing as well the um one

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incontrovertible case would change

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everything and

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i'd be as excited as you if that

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happened i mean it's

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we'll explore this later on it's

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skepticism in the sense that um

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i'm very much of the opinion that a lot

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of answers that are not to do with

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extraterrestrials are undervalued and

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i'm also of the opinion that some of the

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the best cases some of the biggest cases

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in the past which crashed and burned

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probably have taught us a lesson

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oh yes uh we've have i've witnessed a

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couple of

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crashing and burning so to speak um on

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things that were to be revealed you know

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one comes quickly to mind is the

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so-called roswell slides

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uh i you know that was crazy

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and

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you know everyone is waiting with

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you know baited breath to see what this

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is and it's a mummy uh you know it's a

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yeah i mean south american mummy yeah

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yeah and that was that was a shame and

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as soon as i saw a clear enough picture

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just from my background and

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all the museums i've gone to and

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everything you know i mean just right

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away it's like oh my god that's like a

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museum

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thing or something you know right off

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the bat uh the clearer it got and i i

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think you know there were some people

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that made some big mistakes and there

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were some people that were deceiving i

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think that's what that case is about and

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and some people are trying to make some

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money off of it and yeah well

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a biggie for us which um i've got to be

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honest by the time this happened i'd i'd

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seen

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you know things like mj 12 had come and

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gone so

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the longer you're in it well the longer

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i've been in it the more skeptical i've

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got but when the the alien autopsy movie

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the oh yes that's another one yeah

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exactly race antilles thing which which

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still does the rounds and it still gets

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shown on um

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to this day it still gets shown on like

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ufo documentaries but i went to a ufo

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conference in pontiff in yorkshire well

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phil mantle that you've interviewed

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right it was

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one of his conferences and and um

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one of the star turns was the guy that

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hoaxed it

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but that was that was when they showed

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that they i the first time i saw it it

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was at ufo conference in sheffield in

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the year it came out in 1995 and it was

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a truly surreal experience because the

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guy sat like literally one seat in front

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of me was any british

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people listening in will remember roy

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hattersley that was at that point he was

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the deputy leader of the opposing party

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in the british parliament um and there

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were a few odd people in the in the the

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audience and somebody tapped him on the

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shoulder and said well i didn't know

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you're interested in ufos and he turned

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around and he said well i'm not but i'm

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a journalist as in he couldn't you know

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he couldn't turn down the invitation

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just in case and i guess he was about a

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skeptical as myself and you know you do

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have that i mean you you hear stories

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you hear amazing things and

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i get a sense of hope as well but it's

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probably not as simple as thinking right

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this is the one that's going to prove it

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right yeah and you know while we're on

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the alien autopsy you know i had philip

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mantle on the show early on

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um you know uh talking about that that

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case and and how he he did a lot to

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uncover

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you know the the falsities and that and

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uh you know it's the behind the scenes

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on what they did and then the damaged

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leg how that actually was an accident

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and they made it look like

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the alien had you know an injury uh you

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know all that stuff um but

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uh it

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it is convincing you know for if you're

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if you just saw that film

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you would think oh my you know that

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that's got to be real i can understand

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why people fall for that and it is a

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shame when someone doesn't research

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yeah putting together a documentary and

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they put that little clip in like it's

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something real you know and that that

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does bug me in a lot of documentaries

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they'll put

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be fake ufos

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uh in in a documentary that has a

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serious um look at ufos it's they don't

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get enough research there's a couple of

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things there first of all with the alien

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autopsy thing if i'm honest

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the first time i saw it and i hadn't

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seen anything of it until that

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particular showing at the conference

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um

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and there's

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at one point the word video almost

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appears on the screen yeah it's almost

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like they couldn't resist putting

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something like that in there um

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and

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there were a few well i'll confess i was

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joining in there there were a few

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suppressed laughs at that point in the

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audience there are a few people at that

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point thought

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you know anything else now we're not

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convinced

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and

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documentaries well bottom line is

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the the job of most of the documentaries

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that are out there and most of the

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channels that are screening them is to

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deliver an audience to the advertisers

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isn't it so

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they'll go with something that's going

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to get more viewers than than just

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something that's that's

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that they can prove that or that stands

277
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:28,800
up to peer review because that's not

278
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:31,040
their job it's it's it's

279
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:33,040
infotainment which is you know it's an

280
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:35,040
old word now but you know the use of in

281
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:37,920
information as partly as entertainment

282
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:39,839
as well so that's that's never really

283
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:41,920
gone away with ufos

284
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:43,120
i don't know if you had a chance to

285
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:46,800
watch um channel seven australia's

286
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:49,200
documentary on called the phenomenon

287
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:52,240
that ross colt had cold heart did

288
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:53,920
did you get a chance to watch that one

289
00:10:58,310 --> 00:10:56,240
that is a very well done

290
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,320
program it's free it's free on youtube

291
00:11:02,230 --> 00:11:00,560
three million views

292
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:02,240
because you had him on a few weeks ago

293
00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:04,560
and i i was really impressed

294
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:05,519
he's

295
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:09,360
i think you complimented him on his

296
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:11,200
wonderful broadcast books didn't you at

297
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:13,360
one point yeah yeah i think so

298
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,200
he has that thing when you listen to him

299
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:17,360
he just sounds like such a

300
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,480
smooth

301
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:20,399
consummate professional broadcaster that

302
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:22,240
there's times you might disregard his

303
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:24,640
journalism but he is in that group of

304
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:26,959
international investigative journalists

305
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,200
who um well currently the big story in

306
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:31,440
the uk as i'm talking to you

307
00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:32,800
that they've uncovered is the thing that

308
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:34,560
they're calling the pandora papers where

309
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:36,640
they've just there's just

310
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:38,640
terabytes of information and millions of

311
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:40,079
documents about

312
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,399
um you know highly influential people

313
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,560
politicians and business people and

314
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,560
stuff like that and

315
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:48,399
the money that they're moving around and

316
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:49,680
the way that

317
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,160
they're avoiding tax usually legally but

318
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:54,480
quite unethically and russ cortez a lot

319
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:56,880
of that group

320
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:58,480
the thing i found most convincing about

321
00:12:01,030 --> 00:11:59,680
him was that

322
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:01,040
he was basically saying at one point

323
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:03,120
wasn't he that as a journalist he's

324
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:04,959
involved in loads of things and he's got

325
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:07,040
that prime position in australia where

326
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:08,560
he's presenting that you know he's

327
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,240
presenting basically their flagship news

328
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:12,720
show and yet when he was faced with all

329
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,440
the ufo things that were coming his way

330
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,279
a bit like alan heineck before him there

331
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,720
came a point when he thought well this

332
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,079
is just

333
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:22,160
so bizarre and so interesting i can't

334
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,920
deny what i'm seeing yeah yeah

335
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:27,040
sorry yeah

336
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,480
i was just going to say he did a deep

337
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,519
dive for two years and yeah he was even

338
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,120
listening to my show

339
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:35,200
yeah

340
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:42,949
you get enough good people on there that

341
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:44,639
quite a few of us just download it and

342
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,680
you know it'll

343
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,519
they're quite long shows so i can i can

344
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:49,279
quite happily listen to it often on over

345
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:50,800
a week and then get another one the

346
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:52,800
following week that's right yeah they

347
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:54,639
are pretty long uh two hours that's

348
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:56,000
enough um

349
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:57,839
now one thing i i usually do right off

350
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:59,600
the bat but i didn't do this time and

351
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:00,880
that is uh

352
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,959
what gets you interested in this topic

353
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,560
to take a look at it

354
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:06,720
all right well did this there's two

355
00:13:09,190 --> 00:13:07,839
answers to that

356
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:09,200
i'll give you the answer that makes

357
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,320
sense to me that i'll give you the

358
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,839
answer that somebody gave me one time

359
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,440
that made sense to them

360
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:15,200
um i mean basically i can't remember a

361
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:17,120
time before i was

362
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:20,959
interested in ufos so um and i think

363
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,720
possibly it's to do with just the time

364
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,399
in which i grew up you know when space

365
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,480
was really exciting and there were a lot

366
00:13:30,230 --> 00:13:28,320
of stories about what might be out there

367
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:30,240
in the cosmos and it wasn't really known

368
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:31,680
and you know i'm old enough to remember

369
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:34,240
the moon landings and whatever and then

370
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:36,079
the other thing i think which is central

371
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:38,639
to this is that i was very interested in

372
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,480
it and you know my folks were pretty

373
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,240
broad-minded and quite encouraged me to

374
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:44,480
just follow any interest i'd got and my

375
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:46,000
dad actually had a copy of flying

376
00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:48,320
sources of landed by george adamski and

377
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,560
desmond leslie which he bought before i

378
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,959
was born and i read that when i was i

379
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,399
think 13

380
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:56,399
and that book is widely misunderstood

381
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:57,680
because everybody remembers george

382
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:59,199
adamski and the whole thing about him

383
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:01,120
claiming to meet somebody from venus but

384
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:02,880
actually if you look at the book

385
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,480
the bulk of the book isn't that it's the

386
00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:06,480
bit that desmond leslie wrote and

387
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,079
desmond leslie

388
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:10,079
he's underrated i mean he didn't die

389
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,680
that long ago he was really old and he

390
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,839
lived in ireland and he'd done a lot of

391
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,440
really good research

392
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:17,199
and that book was amazing because it

393
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:18,720
just lined up a lot of historical

394
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:20,320
mysteries some of the stuff that still

395
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,560
makes ancient astronauts to this day but

396
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:25,199
that book was written in 1953 so that's

397
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:27,040
what got me into it plus when i started

398
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,639
buying other books the kind of cheaper

399
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:30,000
paperback things that were out in the

400
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:31,199
70s

401
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:32,720
to be brutally honest they were all kind

402
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,160
of luridly written they were always

403
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,399
vivid stories and i mean i know now some

404
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:38,240
of the stories that are in there things

405
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,240
the the kind of go-to stories then with

406
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:42,000
things like kelly hopkins villain stuff

407
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:44,079
and when you read that you know these

408
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:45,440
people in the middle of nowhere that are

409
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:47,120
assaulted by aliens and then they just

410
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:49,040
open up with firearms on the aliens and

411
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:50,639
the aliens just keep coming so they just

412
00:14:55,509 --> 00:14:52,959
make a run for it i mean

413
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:55,519
those stories grabbed me and anyway

414
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,760
years later i was done a i think it was

415
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,160
a 40 and timezone convention i'd done a

416
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:01,920
talk at one of those and that i was

417
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:03,920
backstage talking to somebody just you

418
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,320
know just having a cup of coffee and

419
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:08,720
just sort of saying hello to people and

420
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,920
somebody asked me

421
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,279
you know how long have i been interested

422
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:12,959
in ufos and i said i couldn't remember a

423
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,279
time before i was and some total

424
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:17,360
stranger who was also

425
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:18,880
there having a coffee came over to me

426
00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:20,639
and said well i can explain that he said

427
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:22,880
you're abducted as a baby

428
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:27,110
i don't remember

429
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:28,560
and i don't think they'd come light

430
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,720
years to west cumbria which most of your

431
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:32,320
american listeners couldn't find on a

432
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,519
map

433
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:34,800
but

434
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:37,759
i mean who knows well speaking of that

435
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:39,759
while we're on the while we're on this

436
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:43,040
subject since we haphazardly landed

437
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:43,839
there

438
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:47,920
um what is the alien you know so so

439
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,720
called experiencer or abduction

440
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:53,440
rate like in australia i'm sure you're

441
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,040
aware that it's

442
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:57,120
quite high here i mean people claiming

443
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,079
that they're

444
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,560
being abducted in australia

445
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:04,470
i'm sorry you're not in australia you're

446
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:05,279
in brit

447
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,399
did you just

448
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:09,120
oh i thought

449
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:10,800
you're in the uk but i thought you just

450
00:16:15,030 --> 00:16:12,399
mentioned a place in australia did you

451
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:15,040
not will you grow up um

452
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:16,959
i did before we came on i i was i was

453
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,639
telling you that my son and

454
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:20,880
daughter-in-law live in australia

455
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,959
i'm sorry sorry got that but

456
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:25,040
in england it's

457
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:26,800
you must have seen this there is a map

458
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,440
that shows um

459
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,600
it just basically lights up where more

460
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:33,920
ufo activity has been reported it's a

461
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,199
bit i've seen it on the internet i don't

462
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,680
know who produced it but america is on

463
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:39,120
fire yeah

464
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:39,920
um

465
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:42,320
and and the uk

466
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:45,519
is pretty warm so we have

467
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:48,079
we produce in terms of ufo sightings on

468
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:49,759
a slow year we produce maybe two or

469
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:52,160
three hundred on a very busy year we

470
00:16:55,110 --> 00:16:53,199
produce

471
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:55,120
nearer a thousand so

472
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:56,800
if you look at us historically some of

473
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,320
it is quite predictable the year that

474
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,399
close encounters came out in the uk the

475
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:02,320
sightings spiked

476
00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:05,520
noticeably for example um in terms of

477
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:06,959
abductions

478
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:10,559
don't really want to go into this but

479
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:12,559
just

480
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:14,880
apropos of nothing i was shopping for

481
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:17,520
ufo books in a secondhand bookshop a few

482
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:19,520
weeks ago and just got talking to the

483
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:21,039
other person who was

484
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,959
in the same place

485
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:24,400
took her about two minutes to tell me

486
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:26,160
that she'd been abducted

487
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:28,000
i mean no names no pack drill here but

488
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:29,360
you know it

489
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,760
there are abductees and and i know i put

490
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,400
her in touch i've no idea what went on

491
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:36,000
there and i'm not making any judgments

492
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:37,120
at all but

493
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:37,919
um

494
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,600
i kind of made

495
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:41,200
contact with her and i put her in touch

496
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,120
with the british abductee

497
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,280
support group and there are about 300

498
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:46,960
people in that group

499
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:47,760
so

500
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:49,919
we've you know we've

501
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,320
we've got the same beliefs and the same

502
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,480
experiences reported as you would be

503
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,080
familiar with

504
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,240
how about that you know i mean uh the

505
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:00,400
blog this week as i mentioned

506
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:03,120
earlier is a ufo landing and a meeting

507
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:05,039
with eisenhower and there are some

508
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:08,240
people that have carried along

509
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,760
i don't know if you've ever heard of the

510
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:11,679
arrangement supposedly

511
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:13,600
that was made between eisenhower you

512
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:16,000
know saying that uh you can as you give

513
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:17,280
us some

514
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:19,360
uh you know technology new technology

515
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:21,039
that we can use and with that you have

516
00:18:27,029 --> 00:18:22,320
permission to

517
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,430
and capitalism people and kettle yeah

518
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,000
i'm familiar with my own opinion um i i

519
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:34,000
think it's a bunch of

520
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:37,039
uh baloney myself but you know i mean

521
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,400
there are some people that think that

522
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:40,400
really happened and uh you know it's

523
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:43,200
it's interesting uh you know to say

524
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,880
that's the skeptical opinion martin

525
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,640
you'll be bringing hate down on yourself

526
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:48,480
now

527
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,360
well

528
00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:51,600
uh yeah uh let's see let's see what

529
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:53,840
happens but anyway i i think that you

530
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,760
know i mean

531
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,840
i don't know what this what the answer

532
00:19:01,669 --> 00:19:00,000
is to all these people that are claiming

533
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:01,679
these things are happening to them i

534
00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:04,799
mean uh i do believe that they believe

535
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:06,400
that something is happening to them you

536
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:07,600
know i mean there's there's a lot of

537
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,400
very sane people and intelligent people

538
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:12,000
that are claiming these things are

539
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:15,120
happening happening to them and well

540
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:17,440
you introduced me as a skeptic but

541
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:18,880
that's

542
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:23,360
all the years as my opinions about the

543
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,799
whole thing have changed i mean if you

544
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:26,480
if you'd interviewed me when i was about

545
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:29,039
13 it was obvious

546
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:30,480
everybody was

547
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:32,080
reporting the truth and anybody that

548
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:33,679
denied it was now reminded and i've

549
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:36,240
moved on a little bit since then um and

550
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:37,600
actually funnily enough some of the

551
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,720
earlier books with some of the more

552
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:40,160
bizarre stories

553
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:41,440
in the end convinced me that they

554
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,039
couldn't all be true

555
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,559
but

556
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:46,320
one thing that's always kept me going is

557
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:47,679
that whenever i meet people who are

558
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:49,600
reporting things

559
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:52,400
and particularly with abductees i'm

560
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,799
absolutely convinced if you linked them

561
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:56,400
up to a polygraph

562
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,760
it would say that they're telling you

563
00:20:02,870 --> 00:19:59,520
the truth i mean but people have real

564
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:02,880
experiences and um i'm doing a gig in

565
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,280
like a speaking engagement in essex in a

566
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,880
few weeks time which is another part of

567
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,799
the uk and i used to work there and i

568
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:11,120
was in a research group for a number of

569
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:14,000
years in essex and i remember that

570
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:16,880
in terms of i often tell this story that

571
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,039
in terms of just proving the sincerity

572
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,600
of people who have experiences

573
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:23,360
i wasn't involved in the investigation

574
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,520
on one guy that came to us but i

575
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,440
remember him coming and the interesting

576
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:29,200
thing without going into the story which

577
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,720
resembled actually quite a famous

578
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:32,880
british case um

579
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,280
was that the first request he made to

580
00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:37,200
the group was that we wouldn't tell

581
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,520
anybody and by that he didn't mean

582
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:41,280
i don't want you to tell the media the

583
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:43,200
person he most wanted to keep the story

584
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:45,520
from was his own wife right

585
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:46,320
and

586
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:48,960
it was to do with the fact that he was

587
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,039
he did a kind of manly job like in a

588
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,360
technical sort of area and he'd been on

589
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,440
an emergency call out so

590
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,880
he'd been out in the middle of the night

591
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:58,799
on his own and the experience he'd had

592
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:00,799
had left him so traumatized he had no

593
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:02,720
clue what happened to him and i don't

594
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:04,000
know either but

595
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:05,600
um

596
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:07,520
you know if for people listening in who

597
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,400
are

598
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,280
truly skeptical that as a skeptic about

599
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,600
a lot of the cases i hear i mean no

600
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,440
doubt people have real experiences and

601
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,200
if you were going to gauge it really

602
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:19,440
crudely in terms of how traumatic those

603
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,880
experiences are

604
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:22,799
um i'd say the people that i've met that

605
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,720
have had the most intense experiences

606
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,720
it's it's on a par with having had like

607
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:28,640
a bad car accident or something you

608
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:31,120
don't forget it the initial trauma might

609
00:21:36,310 --> 00:21:34,159
go away but you can still recall it and

610
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,320
you know it's just obviously if

611
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:38,880
because people in my

612
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:40,960
you know have met me in various ways

613
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,720
have known that i'm interested in in

614
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,200
this kind of thing they just randomly

615
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:46,960
come and report if you go and talk to a

616
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:49,120
group on this sort of subject somebody

617
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:50,880
will come and report an experience to

618
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,039
you um yeah you know i had a i had a

619
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:54,960
holiday last week and

620
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:57,520
randomly met somebody who told me i

621
00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:00,240
truly surreal story and absolutely no

622
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:01,760
doubt he was telling me the truth is he

623
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:04,240
experienced it um

624
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:06,000
as to what the actual truth was and

625
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:07,760
whether if you or i had been stood next

626
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,120
to him we'd have seen the same thing

627
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,520
that's a completely different question

628
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,919
yes i think that's interesting because

629
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:15,760
that does

630
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:18,799
happen a lot where two people will be

631
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,320
side by side

632
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:22,159
um you know i've even heard of several

633
00:22:25,029 --> 00:22:23,520
times where

634
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:25,039
someone will be right next they'll be

635
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:26,799
right next to each other and one person

636
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,039
sees something the other person doesn't

637
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,760
yeah you know absolutely and

638
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:33,440
this is one thing in terms of say the

639
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:35,679
skepticism i've got so

640
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,120
i'm

641
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:39,360
one bunch of cases i find really

642
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,120
interesting perhaps more than most

643
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,360
people are you know the so-called high

644
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:45,520
strangeness cases where

645
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,559
um

646
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,720
people report things in

647
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,360
good faith that just don't seem to add

648
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:53,760
up in terms of the logic so

649
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:55,360
there's

650
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:59,200
there are two chapters one's called

651
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:01,440
astounding tales and one's called

652
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,720
cautionary tales right and the

653
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,640
astounding tales are

654
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,039
things i can't easily disprove which are

655
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,840
amazing stories to do with ufology and

656
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:11,760
one of those is it's probably not

657
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:13,360
particularly known in america and it's

658
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:14,480
it's known

659
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,000
more in this country because it turned

660
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:18,000
up in a best-selling book and it

661
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:20,880
concerns a guy called alfred berto

662
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:24,159
and in 1983 alfred berto in in august of

663
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:25,679
1983

664
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:28,080
he was fishing by a canal bank in the

665
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,440
early hours of the morning in a place

666
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,960
called aldershot which is quite a

667
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,559
well-known town in the uk and it's a

668
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,320
garrison town it's famous for its

669
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:36,720
military connections and alfred burton

670
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:38,480
was ex-military and also he'd done

671
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:41,200
things like he'd he'd worked in you know

672
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:42,799
he'd been a trapper he'd caught wild

673
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:44,960
animals in the woods so he was a

674
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:46,880
he was an old man but he had a pretty

675
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,279
tough life he wasn't easily scared

676
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,520
and what happened according to his

677
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:53,360
report was that

678
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:55,840
as he was fishing he saw a ufo land near

679
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,200
the canal

680
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,679
and then two beings came towards him and

681
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:01,840
gestured him towards the ufo and he

682
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,320
walked into the ufo at which point these

683
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,480
beings were no longer there but

684
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:09,120
he heard a voice and the voice asked him

685
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:11,360
how old he was at which point he pointed

686
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:13,039
out that he was going to be 78 on his

687
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,360
next birthday and the voice told him

688
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,039
that he was too old and infirm for their

689
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:19,360
purposes so

690
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,279
he kind of walked back started fishing

691
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:23,600
again and watched the ufo take off

692
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:25,039
now

693
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:26,000
that

694
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:27,919
it's surreal i mean

695
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,440
you come light years and you can't tell

696
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,360
a pensioner apart from a young specimen

697
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:33,840
you know how weird is that yeah

698
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:34,640
um

699
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:35,679
we could

700
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:37,600
if we were sneaking up on people now we

701
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:39,279
can tell old apart from young i mean

702
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,039
these are super intelligent aliens they

703
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:43,919
can get here but they can't do that um

704
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:46,880
and but on the other hand the case was

705
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:48,799
dismissed as a hoax and it isn't there's

706
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:51,200
absolutely no doubt about that he didn't

707
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,880
live that much longer afterwards but his

708
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,480
wife lived a bit longer she was adamant

709
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,080
until the day she died as well that he

710
00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:57,919
hadn't made it up and he wasn't a

711
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,080
publicity seeker it had made the local

712
00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:01,840
paper but the only reason it went in the

713
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:04,400
local paper was that

714
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:05,520
he was

715
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:07,360
keen to find anybody who'd seen the

716
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:09,360
thing take off because he wanted a

717
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,000
witness that would back him up

718
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:14,159
and then he he was dead by the time that

719
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:17,120
he came out in um above top secret which

720
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:19,279
was a best-selling ufo book in the uk

721
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:21,360
and i think it did quite well in america

722
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:23,200
um but by that point alfred bertie had

723
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,720
already died

724
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,559
now he's typical of a number of kind of

725
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,320
witnesses and i find those cases really

726
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,480
interesting my guess and it's only a

727
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:33,120
guess is that had you or i been stood

728
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:34,960
next to him while he was fishing we

729
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:37,840
might have seen an old guy fall asleep

730
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,720
yeah

731
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,799
and i don't think we'd have seen a ufo

732
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:42,559
land and it's just to do with the kind

733
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:45,360
of bizarre logic of that being

734
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,240
kind of

735
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:48,400
it's a collision between a sort of

736
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:50,960
cliched science fiction movie scene

737
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:53,200
and a little bit of an old guy's dream

738
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:55,600
in my humble opinion i mean obviously it

739
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,679
needs explaining in some way and i think

740
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,520
that's a likelier explanation than

741
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:01,360
people traveling light years and then

742
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:03,200
making a basic mistake when they get

743
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,159
here

744
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:06,880
yeah well yeah that's that's one i don't

745
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:08,960
know anything about but it's one that i

746
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:11,600
would say um

747
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:12,720
your

748
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:16,640
and his idea of what happened neither

749
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:20,240
one can be proven or disproven no really

750
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:23,200
but but he's he's typical of

751
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:24,720
i think a type of witness that's

752
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:26,799
undervalued really somebody who is

753
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:29,840
totally sincere um but who tells a story

754
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:31,840
that doesn't completely correspond to

755
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,720
everybody else and yet makes total sense

756
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,400
to them and you can't shift them from

757
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:38,640
the story because

758
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,760
they were there and they know what

759
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:41,200
happened and

760
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:43,039
i've always found those cases quite

761
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,320
interesting and i think you know when

762
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,400
you add those up

763
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:48,720
they hint at other explanations apart

764
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:50,880
from the obvious

765
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:53,279
extraterrestrial abduction thing because

766
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:57,750
they resemble those stories but at the

767
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:59,840
same time they have their own kind of

768
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:01,760
idiosyncrasies they have their own kind

769
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,799
of individual elements that are not kind

770
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:07,279
of logical i mean

771
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:10,240
the eisenhower deal right

772
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,679
they didn't make

773
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,520
i don't i've never heard a variant of

774
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:15,600
that that says well eisenhower said yeah

775
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:17,279
that's fine but you can only take them

776
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,750
well

777
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:25,200
it's a bit death race though isn't it

778
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:27,279
but it's you know it's um

779
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:28,000
uh

780
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:29,360
you know so it's it

781
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:32,080
it just the the bur2 case and several

782
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:33,919
others i could mention you know they

783
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,600
intrigued me for that reason because

784
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:37,760
they it suggests that

785
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:40,080
we possibly have in a lot of people have

786
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,320
in their heads a kind of basic

787
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:44,640
ufo experience that they would expect if

788
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:47,200
it have happened to them and then that's

789
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:49,360
if something triggers that

790
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,039
that's what they actually experience and

791
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,039
that's what they report

792
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,240
well i i guess uh i i'll tell you my ufo

793
00:27:59,110 --> 00:27:57,840
a lot of people on this show have heard

794
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,120
it many times

795
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,679
and it's nothing extraordinary

796
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,600
but uh

797
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:05,760
what happened to me was

798
00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:08,720
you know i was sitting in a hot tub in a

799
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,240
caramel valley

800
00:28:14,830 --> 00:28:12,080
back in

801
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:14,840
i always get this wrong

802
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:17,919
2007 and uh the exact date or whatever i

803
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,840
i don't even remember exactly where this

804
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:21,600
is in california

805
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,600
and something caught my eye

806
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:25,840
and so i followed

807
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,440
watching this thing

808
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:29,039
it was a blue

809
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:32,000
like a a perfectly shaped disc

810
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:34,159
uh no other way to explain it

811
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:36,559
it went over my head but quite far up it

812
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,600
seemed to be quite far up uh nice steady

813
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,840
slow and the thing that freaked me out

814
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:43,279
the most was there was absolutely no

815
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,640
sound at all

816
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:46,720
and it just stopped

817
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:48,559
and then it went on an angle toward

818
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:50,720
monterey and there's like a navy

819
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,520
training base or something but that you

820
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:55,120
know that didn't come to mind at the

821
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,919
time

822
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,080
but all of a sudden i'm looking up at

823
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:00,240
this thing and i'm thinking what

824
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,600
am i seeing you know like everything

825
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,200
in that one moment

826
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:07,200
it's like i can't explain what i'm

827
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,240
seeing

828
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,240
and i and i can't understand what

829
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,480
technology that we would have that this

830
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,399
was you know i mean it didn't do

831
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,320
anything extraordinary like shooting off

832
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,640
like most people talk about

833
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:20,320
i didn't see it land

834
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:23,760
uh but i did that was why i'm doing this

835
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,840
show currently you know i mean it did

836
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:27,760
really interest me

837
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,600
so

838
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,520
there are one or two cases like that

839
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:33,279
what you're describing is an object in

840
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:35,039
the sky and you're looking at it and

841
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:36,240
there's nothing between you and the

842
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,279
object

843
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,120
right right yeah

844
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,799
so and again i'm i'm gonna get my

845
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,320
skeptic head on here which will probably

846
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:44,720
fire up a few of your listeners but

847
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,760
one thing

848
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:48,240
if you've investigated ufos or you know

849
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:49,760
you know anything about this one thing

850
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:51,919
that's that's known to a a bunch of

851
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:54,960
people who've done this for a while

852
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,600
is that it's very difficult if you see

853
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,760
something in the air

854
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,760
and you've got an idea of how far away

855
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:03,760
it is it's very difficult actually to

856
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,039
estimate the distance unless there's

857
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,440
something between you and that and you

858
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:09,360
you can misperceive it from the start

859
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:10,080
and

860
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:12,000
i mean it's it's

861
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:13,279
you know your listeners could google a

862
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:15,520
thing called paradolia which is um yeah

863
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:16,320
it's

864
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:17,919
you know well you know like your mind

865
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:19,840
does this and it makes the pattern and

866
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:21,279
it's funny because

867
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,480
as i've got

868
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,320
particularly this year as i've been

869
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:26,080
talking about ufos and you know i've

870
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:27,919
been doing interviews in the uk but the

871
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:29,760
book came out in june in the uk and then

872
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:30,640
it's

873
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:34,480
came out in the 1st of october in your

874
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:37,039
country that the hard copies and

875
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,880
a couple of things just coincidentally a

876
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,480
couple of weird things happened in terms

877
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:42,720
of sightings that strange sightings i've

878
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:44,159
had this year

879
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,600
um

880
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,080
so one of them was i was on a nature

881
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:50,640
reserve not far from where i live

882
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:51,520
and

883
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:52,480
there was

884
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,000
a brilliant white light up in the sky

885
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:58,320
and it wasn't moving and it didn't look

886
00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:59,760
like a plane i mean i'm quite used to

887
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:01,279
seeing planes and it just it just didn't

888
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:03,440
look like anything right it just like a

889
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,519
little white dot in the sky and it

890
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:07,120
wasn't moving it just seemed to be sort

891
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:08,960
of hovering there

892
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:13,120
and i was with my youngest son and um

893
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:14,720
i kind of pointed it out to him and i

894
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:16,640
got some binoculars in the rucksack so i

895
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:17,679
dropped the rucksack and got the

896
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:19,600
binoculars out but i couldn't find this

897
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:20,799
thing with the binoculars and when i

898
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:22,159
looked it had gone

899
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:24,320
and

900
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,840
i didn't know what the hell it was i'd

901
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,360
seen it definitely was not a line it

902
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:29,919
wasn't it was in an area near where a

903
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,840
flight path into london but there

904
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,840
weren't that many planes beautifully

905
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,000
clear sky and it took me a while and

906
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:37,679
that kind of investigated a few things

907
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:41,039
on this and the what i think i saw

908
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,640
sort of brought it home to me about the

909
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,880
distance in the sky i was perceiving

910
00:31:48,149 --> 00:31:46,559
this thing as being like way way up in

911
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:48,159
the sky about as high as an aircraft

912
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:49,120
right

913
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:51,600
um and it was a bird watcher this is a

914
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:53,840
nature reserve and i got talking to a

915
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:56,080
bird watcher down there who without me

916
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:58,399
going into all the details he explained

917
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,559
some peculiarities about that particular

918
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,440
time with just to do with

919
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:06,000
strange weather this year in the uk took

920
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,679
it took a while for the sea to heat up

921
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:09,760
the land heated up faster than

922
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:11,840
you know and the air currents in that

923
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,559
area were different and cutting a long

924
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,799
story short he convinced me that what i

925
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,799
probably saw was much lower and closer

926
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:21,120
and it was a seagull hovering

927
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,960
um and i hadn't really thought about

928
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:24,799
this and it

929
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,559
led me to looking at seagulls and i

930
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:28,480
hadn't realized quite how different they

931
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,440
all are

932
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:32,159
yeah i mean as in you know it's just

933
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:32,799
and

934
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:35,519
the point being that that strikes me now

935
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,919
was a much more logical explanation and

936
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:39,840
i had to investigate that to the point

937
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:41,760
of actually realizing that there are

938
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:44,000
girls of different colors and this was

939
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,679
probably a very white one that was

940
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:47,360
facing out to sea and i was basically

941
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,039
looking at it's boom

942
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:52,080
it's backside with the sun on it yeah

943
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:54,720
um as it sort of hovered there and it's

944
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,480
far enough away that it's wings would be

945
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:58,159
kind of invisible against the sky but

946
00:33:01,029 --> 00:33:00,000
the big body of it wasn't

947
00:33:01,750 --> 00:33:01,039
um

948
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:01,760
and

949
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:04,480
that sort of it just it just reminded me

950
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:05,840
of how far

951
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:07,360
the whole distance thing you misjudge

952
00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:08,880
you sometimes and then i had another

953
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:10,640
weird experience a few weeks after that

954
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:13,039
just maybe just i'm thinking about ufos

955
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,399
too much but near where i live

956
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:18,640
just there are some old aircraft that

957
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:20,240
fly around down here just to do with the

958
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,519
history of the place and whatever

959
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:23,440
there's one in particular which is a

960
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,360
spitfire that we see quite a lot that

961
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:26,880
flies up and down the county and it

962
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,399
often comes quite near my home because

963
00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:30,000
it flies over an old airfield when it

964
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:32,240
does that and i heard it coming you can

965
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,799
the engine noise is very distinctive so

966
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,480
when you hear it you know it's it's the

967
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:37,679
spitfire

968
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:39,360
and i was just sitting out in my garden

969
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:41,120
in the sun and i looked it and i saw

970
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,640
this thing but it wasn't flying its

971
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,640
normal pattern it was coming right

972
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:46,080
towards me you know like it like in a

973
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:47,840
world war two movie when you see it head

974
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:50,640
on before it opens up the guns yeah

975
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:52,559
it was like this thing was about to it

976
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:53,919
was a long way away but it was doing a

977
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:55,279
run and it was going to come it looked

978
00:33:59,029 --> 00:33:56,640
like it was coming straight over my

979
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:59,039
garden like it was going to strafe me

980
00:34:01,909 --> 00:33:59,760
and

981
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:01,919
i did a kind of double take for a second

982
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:03,360
and then i realized what i was looking

983
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:05,840
at which wasn't the spitfire at all it

984
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,560
was a mosquito as in the little insect

985
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:10,240
and it was about

986
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:11,919
feet away from me it was hovering over a

987
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:14,079
bush in front of me and the whole thing

988
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,440
is that obviously my mind it's the

989
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,280
paradigma thing my mind had done that

990
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:19,520
just in that split second right

991
00:34:24,069 --> 00:34:21,919
um and you know

992
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:24,079
predictably about 30 seconds later this

993
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:25,919
spitfire turned up in its usual place

994
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:29,280
and flew its usual course up the road um

995
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:30,320
but

996
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:31,760
again it was

997
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:32,960
just because i've got a certain

998
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:35,520
expectation in that split second

999
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,800
i saw kind of what i expected to see and

1000
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:40,639
the point being

1001
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:42,320
they're both objects in the air there's

1002
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:43,760
nothing between me and them i'm

1003
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:45,919
misperceiving the distance and i'm

1004
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:47,679
trying to make sense of something when i

1005
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:50,240
do yeah and that happens all the time

1006
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:52,879
yeah no i do agree i mean i don't

1007
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:55,280
i can't explain that i mean i can't

1008
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,079
explain what i saw a way in that manner

1009
00:35:02,150 --> 00:35:00,400
but i do agree that you know that what

1010
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:02,160
you're talking about is an instinctual

1011
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,040
thing

1012
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:05,440
basically for our survival how we've

1013
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,240
survived as a species by being able to

1014
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:10,320
identify you know someone that's going

1015
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:11,760
to something that's going to eat us

1016
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:14,000
alive you know that type of thing um so

1017
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,440
that's why our brain is constantly

1018
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:17,119
trying to form something into something

1019
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:18,320
we know

1020
00:35:23,829 --> 00:35:21,200
and yeah i i had enough time to look at

1021
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:23,839
this thing and and watch it move and and

1022
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:26,320
see that it was a perfectly shaped disc

1023
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,400
and like i said it had like a

1024
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,640
it looks silvery with a light blue glow

1025
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:32,240
over the whole thing i've only heard one

1026
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:35,119
other person say describe what they saw

1027
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:36,800
uh similar i've only heard one other

1028
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,400
time yeah

1029
00:35:42,550 --> 00:35:40,560
but it's a funny thing because

1030
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:42,560
what was probably a seagull i had enough

1031
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:44,480
time to look at that and it was a little

1032
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:46,320
round

1033
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:47,920
white ball

1034
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,760
well

1035
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:51,359
if it was a sequel it wasn't perfectly

1036
00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:52,560
round but

1037
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,079
i think

1038
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:56,240
my best guess is my brain made it the

1039
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:57,680
shape i thought it was going to be

1040
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:59,119
because i thought it was thousands of

1041
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:00,960
feet in the air i didn't think it was a

1042
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:02,880
bird hovering over the coast

1043
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,880
right you know so

1044
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:07,119
i mean

1045
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:09,280
get 12 people show them something there

1046
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:12,480
are lots of experiments on this that

1047
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:14,960
psychology experiments you can show 12

1048
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,880
people the same thing and they don't all

1049
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:18,560
report the same thing if you split them

1050
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:21,200
up and if you lead them with questions

1051
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:22,160
yeah

1052
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:26,720
thing that you're mentioning is so so

1053
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:27,839
many different

1054
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:30,560
ways is when people are led or when

1055
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:31,520
someone

1056
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:33,680
you know um what i've said on this show

1057
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:35,839
and it's not my idea it's

1058
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:36,960
um

1059
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:39,599
other people's ideas if you do have

1060
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,680
something you see or record it as

1061
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,599
quickly as you can you know write it

1062
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:45,599
down draw it whatever you need to do

1063
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,800
here's a question for you i'm going to

1064
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,359
put it up on on right on the screen

1065
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,280
and this is from richard do you think

1066
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:53,760
that any ufos are

1067
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,190
cutting right to the chase here

1068
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:05,030
right any ufos

1069
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,640
if um

1070
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:08,640
the to good answer richard i think you

1071
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:11,200
and i might agree is that we don't know

1072
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:12,560
um

1073
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,760
so my best candidate for a ufo that is

1074
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:17,760
an otherworldly device is probably not

1075
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,520
one that you would think of

1076
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:21,119
it's the emu

1077
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:22,880
object that

1078
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:25,119
came through the solar system back into

1079
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:28,560
2017 wasn't it and the reason i think

1080
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:31,920
that is the best candidate is because

1081
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:34,320
abby lowe who's no slouch on this he's

1082
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:35,040
the

1083
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,800
professor of astronomy at harvard so

1084
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,480
it's not a job you would get by accident

1085
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:40,160
isn't it um

1086
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:43,520
and uh he wrote a book extraterrestrial

1087
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,079
where he argues that now if you google

1088
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,240
it he's not convinced a lot of other

1089
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:50,480
people but he's in pretty good company i

1090
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,240
mean when he's not talking about that

1091
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:54,240
object in the book he mentions a few of

1092
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,599
the things like the fact that he had his

1093
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:56,880
friend stephen hawking around

1094
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,800
occasionally you know so he was he was

1095
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,480
in quite good company

1096
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,240
so the truth of the matter is i don't

1097
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,240
know i think if if you were going to go

1098
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:06,560
for a best case it would be that one and

1099
00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:07,920
that's because

1100
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:10,560
it's at the moment you can't explain it

1101
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:13,040
any other way but it it never came to

1102
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:14,480
earth it just came through the solar

1103
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,359
system and passed back out of it again

1104
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,280
all right well um

1105
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,839
so right now since you just you just

1106
00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:24,000
call called that as one that you think

1107
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:25,280
is

1108
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,480
compelling

1109
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:29,040
uh what about

1110
00:38:33,270 --> 00:38:31,920
other ones that you must have seen like

1111
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:33,280
for instance let's talk quickly about

1112
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,880
the three videos

1113
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:36,640
that the government says they that our

1114
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:39,040
u.s government says they have no clue

1115
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:42,640
on their unidentified to the government

1116
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:44,000
and so what do you think about those

1117
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:46,880
three videos

1118
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:52,150
i don't think you can answer that simply

1119
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:53,839
so the bottom line is i'm less convinced

1120
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:55,520
than most people

1121
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:56,480
and

1122
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:57,839
i think they're impressive if you look

1123
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,599
at the videos they're what you expect to

1124
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,280
see they're the sort of clips that look

1125
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:03,280
really good on a news program

1126
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:06,240
the more you read and investigate the

1127
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:08,320
more you might suspect that they're not

1128
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,160
what they seem to be

1129
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:12,240
so

1130
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:13,599
i'm not convinced they're extra

1131
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:15,520
terrestrial and the main reason i'm not

1132
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:17,119
convinced of that is well there's a

1133
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:18,400
number of reasons if i was going to

1134
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,599
rattle them out

1135
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:21,839
number one we've been here before we've

1136
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:22,720
had

1137
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,839
the perfect case for the time

1138
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:27,119
and it's

1139
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,680
proven it's not being proven and

1140
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:31,440
when i was talking about this in the uk

1141
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:32,960
so

1142
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:35,599
my book came out 24th of june in the uk

1143
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:37,839
the 25th of june was the pentagon thing

1144
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:38,640
yeah

1145
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:39,680
i mean

1146
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,920
we planned the book months in advance

1147
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,839
you don't get that lucky normally do you

1148
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:45,359
and it was all over the news so

1149
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:50,790
if you break those videos down there's a

1150
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:53,119
few things to say about him first of all

1151
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:54,640
for my when i was talking about in the

1152
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:57,200
uk i was saying well most in my mind it

1153
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:59,599
most resembles the 1952 sightings in

1154
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:01,040
washington which were the perfect

1155
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,359
sightings over flights of ufos two

1156
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,440
saturdays running over the white house

1157
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,680
yeah um and it's never been

1158
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,440
satisfactorily explained but the weird

1159
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:11,200
thing about it is it's never recurred

1160
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:12,160
either

1161
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,839
so you would suspect and also

1162
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:17,520
if they're going to come light years why

1163
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,200
did they come on two consecutive

1164
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:21,280
saturdays over washington

1165
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:22,319
yeah

1166
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:23,599
you know and it just so happens your

1167
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,200
local air base is stood down as well

1168
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:27,359
it's also all a bit bizarre so

1169
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,880
i think there is something in those

1170
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:30,960
videos that smacks of almost a perfect

1171
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,000
case

1172
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,800
and also bear in mind that

1173
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:36,720
there's a whole

1174
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:38,560
history of these you know they they they

1175
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,000
span a number of years so they've been

1176
00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:42,400
cherry-picked for the best ones um

1177
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:44,560
there's a book by sarah scholes called

1178
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:46,160
they're already here i don't know if it

1179
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:47,920
probably hasn't sold very well she was

1180
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,560
on she was on the show yeah sorry i

1181
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:53,280
missed that one my bad but

1182
00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:54,079
she

1183
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,280
one of those videos

1184
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:05,040
actually comes provably from a lab in

1185
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:08,240
germany that is a special effects

1186
00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:11,040
you know that this it's a noted

1187
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:12,640
site for special effects so in other

1188
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,319
words her implication is that you can't

1189
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,400
trust one of those videos because

1190
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:18,480
well that's true that's i i don't want

1191
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:20,400
to call that disinformation but that's a

1192
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:23,520
little bit of misinformation

1193
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,119
because that

1194
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:27,119
uh that

1195
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:29,119
that is partially true

1196
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:32,880
um they had that video um but that's not

1197
00:41:36,470 --> 00:41:34,720
where it originated

1198
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:36,480
they had that video and they didn't

1199
00:41:41,109 --> 00:41:39,680
release it but the version originated

1200
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:41,119
yeah but the version we see is where it

1201
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,200
originated so it's i mean

1202
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:45,040
that's where we see it but it did that

1203
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:46,640
the government is saying that is one of

1204
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,400
their videos they're not they're not

1205
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:50,240
shying away from that

1206
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,319
okay of course it was originally but

1207
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:53,760
that's not the version we're seeing and

1208
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:55,119
we don't know what they did to it and

1209
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:57,280
nobody's explained that and if if you

1210
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:59,040
could see the original and you could see

1211
00:42:02,309 --> 00:42:00,560
their

1212
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:02,319
doctored version then you'd know what

1213
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:04,160
was actually added wouldn't you and

1214
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,440
that's not been

1215
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:07,359
so would you think that

1216
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:08,720
do you think that our government would

1217
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:11,760
give their thumbs up to that video and

1218
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:14,079
say we don't know what it is and not say

1219
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:15,760
that's not our video that's not the

1220
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,920
video we released

1221
00:42:20,150 --> 00:42:18,960
well

1222
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:20,160
they wouldn't

1223
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:22,079
look the honest-to-god answer to that

1224
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,680
martini is i don't know and you don't

1225
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,359
know but i could give you a reason why

1226
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:28,079
that might happen yeah which would be to

1227
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,800
do with a number of things so again

1228
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,430
skeptical history of ufology there are

1229
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:37,440
cases where

1230
00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:40,400
for one reason or another ufo reports

1231
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:42,319
have been used by the government for

1232
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:45,599
various we have for for understandable

1233
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:49,040
purposes which might be to

1234
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:50,880
the case of the washington sightings and

1235
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:51,920
also

1236
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:54,640
the ufo scares in the 1950s it's it's

1237
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:56,640
now widely recognized that the united

1238
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:59,520
states for example was worried about

1239
00:43:03,510 --> 00:43:01,520
development of arms in the soviet union

1240
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,520
and was particularly concerned about the

1241
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:05,040
fact that on

1242
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:06,800
the more rural areas of the american

1243
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:09,119
coast you didn't have blanket radar

1244
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,359
coverage so if people were watching the

1245
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:13,119
skies for whatever reason it would be

1246
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:14,880
quite useful right

1247
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:15,680
um

1248
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:17,200
so

1249
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:19,440
it may be that what you're looking at

1250
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:21,200
there is cutting edge technology from

1251
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:22,960
earth i think that's quite i mean you

1252
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:25,359
know entirely possible um

1253
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:28,560
the us again you know phil patton who i

1254
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:29,680
don't know if you've had him on in the

1255
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:31,839
past but he wrote an amazing book um

1256
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:34,720
travels in dreamland about area 51 which

1257
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,560
includes a number of frank discussions

1258
00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:38,000
of how

1259
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:39,760
occasionally

1260
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,040
covertly

1261
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,040
cutting-edge hardware was used in the

1262
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,119
united states and

1263
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,520
was actually flown within sight of other

1264
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:49,839
people the pilots who had ufo sightings

1265
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,319
or um you know was sometimes used to

1266
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,720
test the readiness of of your own

1267
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:56,640
military but they didn't know that they

1268
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:57,760
were looking at

1269
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,160
technology from the same country yes i

1270
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:02,319
understand that i understand yeah and

1271
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:04,640
like the stealth airplane for one

1272
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:07,040
yeah exactly it's and there's a there's

1273
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:09,359
a an early test of stealth technology

1274
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,720
was it 1976 of los angeles there was a

1275
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,760
bizarre radar report of a ufo and it's

1276
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,760
it's now known it was an early stealth

1277
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:19,680
test and the whole point was

1278
00:44:22,950 --> 00:44:21,359
they wanted to see whether by flying it

1279
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:22,960
in certain ways they could make it

1280
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,920
disappear from radar um

1281
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:28,000
you know so that so if a civilian radar

1282
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:29,440
reported an object that was there and

1283
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,880
then suddenly disappeared that was

1284
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:31,920
actually telling them something

1285
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:33,680
important and that you know so they

1286
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,920
tested it

1287
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:37,680
and and similarly

1288
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:40,480
when i was first reading ufo books

1289
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:43,599
standard story in the ufo books was

1290
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:45,200
there are objects flying so high we

1291
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:46,800
can't see them and so fast they can't

1292
00:44:50,790 --> 00:44:48,800
possibly be hours right

1293
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:50,800
now one of the objects that was flying

1294
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:54,319
like that was the blackbird um and it

1295
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:57,760
was just it was so far ahead as an

1296
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,839
aircraft when it was first developed

1297
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,520
there were one or two revolutionary

1298
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:03,440
things about the blackbird which even to

1299
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:05,359
this day are actually a bit bizarre so

1300
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:06,880
when you see it on the ground you know

1301
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:09,359
the the

1302
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,319
early 7 early 60s airplane but when you

1303
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,240
see it on the ground it the fuel just

1304
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:15,920
floods out of it doesn't it so when it's

1305
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,359
when it's taxing on the runway it's

1306
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:19,520
pouring fuel out because it has to get

1307
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:21,280
up to speed for the body work to

1308
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,200
actually work properly you know it needs

1309
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,520
the heat of the and

1310
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:27,200
that was that was absolutely

1311
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:29,839
revolutionary for its time and

1312
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:32,400
it was tracked on radar and radar

1313
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:34,720
operators couldn't it obviously wasn't a

1314
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,599
missile um and radar operators didn't

1315
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:39,359
know what they were seeing but the

1316
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,720
american

1317
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:42,480
military who were covering it up at that

1318
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:43,920
point were not about to tell them that

1319
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:46,640
it was one of theirs so

1320
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,720
if you come to the pentagon videos it

1321
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,400
may well be that the same thing is

1322
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,480
happening and there is a history of this

1323
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,319
that that this cutting-edge technology

1324
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:55,920
that people see

1325
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,319
and occasionally it's used against

1326
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,400
you know you it's tested against the

1327
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:02,160
things that you would your own military

1328
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:03,680
and your own civilian radars and

1329
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:04,720
whatever

1330
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:07,119
um and another meta bunk site with one

1331
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,800
of the videos actually claimed that if

1332
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:10,480
you freeze frame it at the end you can

1333
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:11,920
begin to see the

1334
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:14,960
fighter plane shape emerging so no no no

1335
00:46:20,309 --> 00:46:18,400
that uh i i want you to after we're done

1336
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:20,319
the show and tomorrow i know it's very

1337
00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:21,040
late

1338
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:22,720
i want you to check out

1339
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:26,880
chris chris lado's site l-e-h

1340
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:30,240
he definitely uh debunks the debunking

1341
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:33,040
of that and okay so uh well it's

1342
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:34,800
interesting but i do want to say i do

1343
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:37,119
want to say so what do you think about

1344
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:38,640
the testimony

1345
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:42,240
of alex dietrich and uh david fravor on

1346
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:45,440
the uss nimitz uh case when they saw

1347
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,760
this thing visually not only on radar

1348
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:49,040
all the radar

1349
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:49,839
uh

1350
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:53,119
and we're talking about 1300

1351
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:55,760
g's this thing uh supposedly done when

1352
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,240
it dropped uh to near just above the

1353
00:47:01,829 --> 00:46:59,920
ocean floor

1354
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:01,839
um

1355
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:04,079
if it's doing that it doesn't have to be

1356
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:06,000
piloted so

1357
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,000
you know it's yeah but no we don't have

1358
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,680
any technology that would stay together

1359
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:11,520
with that many g-force

1360
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,440
the missiles nothing would stay together

1361
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,280
with that g-force

1362
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:17,520
we don't have any technology we know of

1363
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:20,079
but when people when radar operators

1364
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,680
were reporting something that was flying

1365
00:47:25,829 --> 00:47:23,359
too high and fast to be a plane in the

1366
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:25,839
early 1960s we

1367
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:27,680
didn't have any technology that would do

1368
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:29,599
that we did it's just the blackbird was

1369
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,280
a secret all right well here's my other

1370
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,920
argument they've been

1371
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:35,920
they've been seeing these type of things

1372
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:38,400
and this type of reaction of craft you

1373
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:41,359
know for 70 years you know i mean uh

1374
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,680
recorded in the 1960s 25 000 miles an

1375
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:47,839
hour you know an object you know so i

1376
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:49,920
mean i don't think that's the thing

1377
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:51,440
that's always gets thrown out when

1378
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:53,680
people are talking that this might be

1379
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,640
our technology now well possibly some of

1380
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:58,160
it could be but

1381
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:00,160
they've been talking about the same

1382
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,680
you know uh

1383
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:03,760
type of technology

1384
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:05,359
and

1385
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,520
for decades

1386
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:11,920
so and you know i've i've talked to a

1387
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:13,200
lot of people i've seen some pretty

1388
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,440
strange things and again i'm not saying

1389
00:48:19,109 --> 00:48:17,040
that i know what they are

1390
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,119
but all i'm saying it just seems like it

1391
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:21,599
would defy anything that the we could

1392
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:22,640
have

1393
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,359
uh for our own technology in my opinion

1394
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,470
i i don't know

1395
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:32,640
i'd fall back on what i said before so

1396
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,839
whoops i don't know how that got up

1397
00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:35,119
there sorry

1398
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,520
it's all right

1399
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:39,200
but i feel back on what i said before

1400
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:40,559
that that

1401
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:42,640
it just

1402
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:44,480
i'm

1403
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:45,680
unconvinced that this is

1404
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:48,720
extraterrestrial because for me the

1405
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,920
release of this fits a pattern the uh oh

1406
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,760
okay again

1407
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:55,440
this is the american government who are

1408
00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:57,680
releasing this yeah

1409
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:59,359
but it's

1410
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:00,800
the american government are working

1411
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:03,760
through i don't know what you call them

1412
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:06,319
in in the united states but we have

1413
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:08,240
things over here called quangos which

1414
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,760
are not quite government and they're not

1415
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:11,440
quite private yeah

1416
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:14,000
it's when you know

1417
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,520
you give people a certain amount of

1418
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:17,680
money you subcontract the job of doing

1419
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:20,480
an investigation yeah um and there's

1420
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:23,920
this whole history of you know the the

1421
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:26,160
the same people robert bigelow and and

1422
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:28,079
you know the the the various

1423
00:49:33,020 --> 00:49:31,680
organizations that have been there and

1424
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:33,030
they're linked to

1425
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,160
[Music]

1426
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:36,240
this report coming out and

1427
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:37,440
you know the

1428
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:40,640
the extreme skeptical take on that um

1429
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:42,720
skeptoid devoted two episodes didn't

1430
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:44,559
they to the whole history of the the

1431
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:46,160
different groups that they've had and

1432
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:48,160
the years in which they've operated and

1433
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:51,119
the way people like hal put off and

1434
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:52,960
you know jack valley and people like

1435
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:54,800
that have contributed to it

1436
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:56,240
um

1437
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:58,160
and

1438
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:00,960
it's come from that source so it's not

1439
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,640
whilst whilst there are senators and

1440
00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:04,559
people in your government who

1441
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,040
want this information out there

1442
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:09,839
um the people collating it recently have

1443
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,000
been by and large have been in a

1444
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:14,960
particular mindset so

1445
00:50:18,870 --> 00:50:16,400
these are the greatest hits that they've

1446
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:18,880
put out there it's and

1447
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:20,480
you know they're not showing us a lot of

1448
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:21,599
other things that are a lot less

1449
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:23,839
conclusive and

1450
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:25,520
from my point of view if you do good

1451
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,200
investigation

1452
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:29,200
you add up everything you add up the

1453
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,359
stuff that you thought was and you

1454
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:34,079
discovered wasn't bizarre because that's

1455
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:35,599
going to teach you something as well

1456
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:36,480
yeah

1457
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,440
so

1458
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:39,200
from my point of view we have been here

1459
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:40,480
before because

1460
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,480
it is almost the perfect case at the

1461
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:45,359
perfect time yeah and we've had those

1462
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:47,040
you know the the washington overflight

1463
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,040
was definitely that it

1464
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:50,880
bear in mind the washington overflight

1465
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:53,280
occurred about a year after the day the

1466
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,720
earth stood still movie came out yeah

1467
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:58,559
yeah but are you so are you saying our

1468
00:51:02,069 --> 00:51:00,400
government actually

1469
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:02,079
faked it

1470
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:03,520
is that what you're saying no i'm trying

1471
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:05,839
to no no but okay the

1472
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:08,880
the report came from the

1473
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,599
it's the report was subcontracted it's

1474
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:13,200
it's a government report because they

1475
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,040
funded it not because it was government

1476
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:16,720
people that did it

1477
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:19,280
the the people that the nine page report

1478
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:21,920
was was a a subcontracted job wasn't it

1479
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:23,839
that um

1480
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:25,839
you know the and it's those people i

1481
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:27,839
mentioned that have been involved in in

1482
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:30,480
ufo investigation for years

1483
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:32,319
so

1484
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:33,920
in a sense it's the it's the answers

1485
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:37,200
you'd have expected them to give you and

1486
00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:38,800
like i say it

1487
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:41,440
it fits a pattern where we've had

1488
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:43,920
you part of the history of ufology is

1489
00:51:48,069 --> 00:51:45,839
that we've had the perfect case come

1490
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:48,079
forward at the perfect time so for

1491
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:50,640
example the mj12 documents made perfect

1492
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,720
sense in the wake of watergate and the

1493
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:54,640
whole idea about you know government

1494
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:56,880
existing in a way that it was never

1495
00:52:02,390 --> 00:51:59,440
honest and and whatever yeah

1496
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:02,400
and that just crashed and burned

1497
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:05,599
so i we could talk around the houses on

1498
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:06,480
this

1499
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,839
perhaps a better way of looking at it

1500
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:09,839
would be this martin

1501
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,760
if we had this conversation in three

1502
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:13,839
years time i wonder if anything more

1503
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,280
will have developed from those three

1504
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:17,920
videos or whether they will just go down

1505
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:19,520
in history the way the washington over

1506
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:22,720
flights did and mj-12 did and so on and

1507
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:24,000
so on

1508
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:26,960
well according to lou elizondo

1509
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:27,839
there

1510
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:29,440
at some point

1511
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:30,960
um he thinks

1512
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,040
it's going to be released as a 23-minute

1513
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:37,760
video that actually has multiple crafts

1514
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,640
and that supposedly he has some type of

1515
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:42,960
inside where that

1516
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:44,000
he hasn't

1517
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:48,400
said has come you know come along so

1518
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:50,400
we'll see when that happens uh hopefully

1519
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:51,920
that will

1520
00:52:57,030 --> 00:52:54,800
i would love i would love

1521
00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:57,040
to be wrong on this one yeah just think

1522
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:59,839
about this for a second

1523
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:02,000
there's a certain irony in

1524
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:04,400
a lot of pro et people and whatever in

1525
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:06,240
ufology

1526
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:08,079
what they want is full disclosure the

1527
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:11,040
whole time yeah well

1528
00:53:15,510 --> 00:53:13,040
if we got one bit of full disclosure and

1529
00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:15,520
it proved that e.t existed

1530
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,440
it might put ufologists it might put a

1531
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:19,359
lot of jobbing ufologists who go and do

1532
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,000
talks and stuff out of a job

1533
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,880
uh i don't care i'll still talk about it

1534
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:26,640
well yeah but

1535
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:28,240
if everybody knows what the answer is

1536
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:29,599
who wants to keep me talking about the

1537
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:32,319
possibilities i i this is not a money

1538
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:35,040
thing for me it's not a passion

1539
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,480
but i do understand there are some

1540
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:38,480
circuit people and there are people that

1541
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,119
yeah yeah but it might it might take a

1542
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,680
lot of the business out of it um and i'm

1543
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:44,400
not

1544
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:48,079
that sounds a bit facetious but

1545
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:49,760
you know i've been following this for

1546
00:53:54,309 --> 00:53:52,160
long enough and talking about it and and

1547
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:54,319
going to conferences and all the things

1548
00:53:57,430 --> 00:53:55,760
that people should be doing if they want

1549
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:57,440
to get involved in it

1550
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:58,800
um

1551
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:01,680
and it's blindingly obvious to me i mean

1552
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,520
my academic background was teaching

1553
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,359
people to write for a living and you

1554
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:07,359
know media and getting them into those

1555
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:08,400
areas

1556
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:11,280
so you see how culture in inverted

1557
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,599
commerce develops and it's blindingly

1558
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:15,599
bloody obvious that that

1559
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:18,800
ufos and the whole reality of ufos has

1560
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,720
developed along with time and belief

1561
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,800
systems and everything like that and

1562
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:24,960
that's inescapable and a lot of what

1563
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:26,640
people talk about and a lot of what

1564
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,200
people pay to consume is to do with

1565
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:31,680
certain fashionable things yeah so you

1566
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,920
would be struggling now george adamski

1567
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:35,520
coming back now and saying well actually

1568
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:37,920
i met a guy from venus i think he's on a

1569
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:39,920
loser isn't he yeah

1570
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:42,240
yeah well with milking it

1571
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,160
yeah i mean yeah you know there's enough

1572
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:46,160
out there about him but it's time for us

1573
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:47,839
to go into break we have a four minute

1574
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:49,920
break and this is one of the uh

1575
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,240
recordings uh i've been getting a lot of

1576
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:54,559
recordings for for uh some great ufo

1577
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:56,799
sightings coming up and this one here is

1578
00:55:01,589 --> 00:54:59,359
by tony he's a flight controller just

1579
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:01,599
outside of detroit and for those of you

1580
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:04,000
over at kgra radio we'll be right back

1581
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:11,670
all righty i have tony on the line tony

1582
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:12,799
welcome

1583
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:15,040
hi there martin um now you sent me an

1584
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:17,440
email saying you had a strange

1585
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:18,640
ufo

1586
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:23,280
uh sighting and it's it's one that

1587
00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:26,720
it's so bizarre because a few days ago

1588
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:28,559
someone wrote me

1589
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:29,520
um

1590
00:55:33,910 --> 00:55:31,040
that's in the military that said they

1591
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,920
had a cylinder vertical cylinder

1592
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:35,520
sighting just like what you're talking

1593
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:38,000
about but let's go into the details

1594
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:40,160
uh what uh when did how long ago did

1595
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:42,079
this happen and where and all that all

1596
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:45,440
that this was in march of uh 2018 is

1597
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,200
when it happened

1598
00:55:52,390 --> 00:55:49,760
and i mean months passed before i ever

1599
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:52,400
reported that to mufon

1600
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:54,319
or anything i never even researched it

1601
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:56,319
just it bothered me that i didn't know

1602
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:58,240
what i saw that day i

1603
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:00,480
looked at it myself and a coworker

1604
00:56:04,950 --> 00:56:02,960
through binoculars and couldn't

1605
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,960
understand what we were looking at

1606
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,559
now i should i should point out to the

1607
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:08,880
person watching on on youtube or

1608
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:11,119
facebook or wherever it is that this is

1609
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,040
a picture of something you found that

1610
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,359
looked very similar but did you not have

1611
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:16,880
a chance to take a picture of it when

1612
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:19,119
you saw it or was it so small you could

1613
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:21,119
only see it in the binoculars yeah

1614
00:56:25,510 --> 00:56:23,599
absolutely it was so it was it was pro

1615
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,520
my guess is somewhere around 20 000 feet

1616
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,359
at altitude it was it was up there a

1617
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:29,440
little ways my phone i did take some

1618
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:31,760
pictures with my phone but the image at

1619
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:34,000
that point it just looks like a star

1620
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:36,640
it gave off so much light so much glint

1621
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,359
uh that it it that's basically all it

1622
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,520
showed up as on my phone what time of

1623
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:44,160
day or was it in the evening nope 2 30

1624
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:46,079
in the afternoon broad daylight

1625
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,480
uh aircraft landing at metro airport

1626
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:50,240
directly underneath it

1627
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:52,079
but the facility i'm a plant manager at

1628
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,200
a facility

1629
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:55,440
about four miles from metro airport in

1630
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:56,640
detroit

1631
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:58,960
and the airport's actually in romulus

1632
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:00,000
and uh

1633
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:02,480
it was directly over top of landing

1634
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:03,839
aircraft

1635
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,400
um i watched it come from the north

1636
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:08,160
slowly make a

1637
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:11,280
uh heading kind of southwest

1638
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:13,359
and i've we watched this thing for

1639
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:15,520
probably 30 minutes

1640
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:18,160
and i i stared out edit out my office

1641
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:20,160
window originally and i i just couldn't

1642
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:21,440
understand what i was looking at so i

1643
00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:23,359
grabbed my binoculars and i keep next to

1644
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,400
my desk

1645
00:57:27,589 --> 00:57:26,079
and walked out took a look at it

1646
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:27,599
co-worker came over he was looking at it

1647
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:28,640
with me

1648
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:29,520
and

1649
00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,520
i remember putting the binoculars

1650
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:33,680
multiple times to my eyes and

1651
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:34,960
i just kept putting them down going what

1652
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:37,119
if i didn't understand what i was seeing

1653
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:39,440
it made no sense to me because the wind

1654
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:40,880
was blowing

1655
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,960
directly to the east

1656
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:45,280
the aircraft were landing into the wind

1657
00:57:49,510 --> 00:57:47,040
heading west and when they do that they

1658
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:49,520
passed directly over our facility

1659
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:52,079
and i couldn't we we both couldn't

1660
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:54,000
understand what we were seeing and it

1661
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:55,520
looked fairly large it looked like it

1662
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:56,640
may have been

1663
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:59,359
my guess is 100 foot in length at least

1664
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:01,839
oh so that's probably not a typical

1665
00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:03,920
balloon uh one last thing do you think

1666
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,079
the airplanes that were landing actually

1667
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:08,480
saw this thing oh absolutely

1668
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,599
yep

1669
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:11,280
it was much higher in altitude but i bet

1670
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:14,000
they saw it and what i didn't add in was

1671
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:15,200
there was

1672
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:17,040
uh once i took down the binoculars when

1673
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:19,920
it was almost directly over our facility

1674
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,760
at probably 20 000 feet in altitude

1675
00:58:25,109 --> 00:58:24,000
there was an f-16 that flew right next

1676
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,119
to it

1677
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,599
from the north to the south and i

1678
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:29,119
watched that thing go out to the south

1679
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:32,000
f-16 until i couldn't see it anymore

1680
00:58:35,109 --> 00:58:33,680
and it passed right next to it so

1681
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:35,119
something was interested in what that

1682
00:58:41,540 --> 00:58:37,520
was yeah interesting well thank you so

1683
00:59:10,710 --> 00:58:41,550
much tony i appreciate that no problem

1684
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:17,750
stand by martin

1685
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:21,829
in three two one go

1686
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:23,520
all right welcome back

1687
00:59:27,589 --> 00:59:25,680
uh i'm martin willis and my guest

1688
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:27,599
tonight is neil nixon

1689
00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:30,400
and gonna bring him right back in

1690
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:32,880
i think i am there he is

1691
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:35,119
all right welcome back yeah

1692
00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:35,920
uh

1693
00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:38,319
yeah well

1694
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:40,480
i have the feeling that so

1695
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:42,960
for the most part um

1696
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:44,640
it seems like you've really looked

1697
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,559
pretty deeply into the topic but what do

1698
00:59:50,069 --> 00:59:48,640
you make of things like the ariel school

1699
00:59:51,030 --> 00:59:50,079
incident

1700
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:51,040
siri

1701
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:52,960
are you familiar with the ariel school

1702
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:55,680
incident well the one in in africa

1703
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:58,799
yeah yeah um

1704
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:01,440
again i i don't know so you're right in

1705
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:04,400
terms of looking into it deeply

1706
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:05,680
um

1707
01:00:09,829 --> 01:00:08,079
i've probably looked

1708
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:09,839
way more into

1709
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:11,119
kind of the

1710
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:13,200
psychological sociological all the other

1711
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:14,960
explanations that people tend not to

1712
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:17,040
touch on very much and i've got a few

1713
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:19,359
kind of things that i've

1714
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:22,000
you know my own kind of insights into it

1715
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:24,160
which aren't in the literature and you

1716
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:25,839
know which i'll eventually get around to

1717
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:28,400
writing up but um

1718
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:30,720
that one very much resembles a case in

1719
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:32,960
the uk and again

1720
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,119
let's be clear about this because alan

1721
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:36,880
heineck said the same thing that we

1722
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:39,119
don't by and large we don't study ufos

1723
01:00:44,309 --> 01:00:42,720
we study reports of ufos right um that's

1724
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,319
one of the more convincing ones there is

1725
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:46,319
a skill report from wales in this

1726
01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:47,760
country

1727
01:00:53,109 --> 01:00:50,400
which is very very similar where

1728
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:53,119
a lot fewer children saw something land

1729
01:00:56,710 --> 01:00:54,720
and

1730
01:00:59,109 --> 01:00:56,720
were again quite rightly sort of

1731
01:01:01,589 --> 01:00:59,119
separated and asked to draw it and came

1732
01:01:02,309 --> 01:01:01,599
up with very very similar drawings

1733
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:02,319
and

1734
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:03,119
i

1735
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:16,160
so

1736
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:18,880
i don't know i'm hugely intrigued kids

1737
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:20,720
in some ways are the best witnesses

1738
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:22,720
because they're often very matter of

1739
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:24,400
fact about things that the rest of us

1740
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:25,599
would find

1741
01:01:27,990 --> 01:01:27,200
truly bizarre

1742
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:28,000
right

1743
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:29,359
so

1744
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:30,160
the

1745
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,400
and this is this is my heart i did

1746
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,400
skepticism again which will wind some of

1747
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:38,720
your listeners up i know but

1748
01:01:41,829 --> 01:01:40,160
there are two things that occur to me

1749
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:41,839
when we're dealing with these cases

1750
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:44,400
first of all if they're true

1751
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:45,599
then they're

1752
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,839
it's a one-off or it's a two-off you

1753
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:49,440
know and there's one or two other cases

1754
01:01:51,589 --> 01:01:50,720
like that

1755
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:51,599
so

1756
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:54,000
it doesn't make sense to me that all

1757
01:02:00,470 --> 01:01:57,280
that effort from one place to another to

1758
01:02:01,990 --> 01:02:00,480
come to us if this is space travelers

1759
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:02,000
just results in them presenting

1760
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:03,280
themselves in front of a bunch of

1761
01:02:08,630 --> 01:02:06,079
skilled kids and disappearing again

1762
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:08,640
here's my here's my thoughts on that

1763
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,520
um

1764
01:02:14,069 --> 01:02:11,200
who's more malleable

1765
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:14,079
than a young child um you know a lot of

1766
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:14,880
these

1767
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:18,480
students have claimed that they had

1768
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:20,720
telepathic messages to take care of the

1769
01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:21,760
earth i mean

1770
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:23,839
it's i think that's all fascinating

1771
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:25,839
there's a lot of schoolyard

1772
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,960
sightings and and also i think whoever

1773
01:02:33,589 --> 01:02:31,200
this is traveling you're trying to put

1774
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:33,599
them in a box of how we think

1775
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:35,680
this is what i see i'm being skeptical

1776
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:36,559
of you

1777
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:37,760
because

1778
01:02:41,829 --> 01:02:39,839
you know you're you're trying to

1779
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,839
whatever it is

1780
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:43,680
how can they possibly think and

1781
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:46,240
rationalize like we do and that's what i

1782
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:48,160
think you're trying to

1783
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:50,160
i'm being skeptical of you then

1784
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:52,079
um all right

1785
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:54,640
no this is this is a proper interview

1786
01:02:58,470 --> 01:02:56,880
two views colliding will yeah come to

1787
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:58,480
some conclusions point camera points

1788
01:03:01,349 --> 01:03:00,240
it's trotting out the greatest hits

1789
01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:01,359
isn't it

1790
01:03:04,470 --> 01:03:03,200
i'm not trying to put them in a box the

1791
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:04,480
problem

1792
01:03:12,309 --> 01:03:09,990
fairly skeptically minded person who's

1793
01:03:14,630 --> 01:03:12,319
interested in ufos is that i'm often

1794
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:14,640
asked questions in the context of a ufo

1795
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:18,400
podcast or a ufo mindset

1796
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:20,480
and why does it have to be to do with

1797
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:22,720
ufos so

1798
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:24,880
if i just throw out

1799
01:03:29,589 --> 01:03:26,160
a couple of other suggestions with

1800
01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:29,599
regard to the skill things or whatever

1801
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:31,520
if we assume for one second that there

1802
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:34,240
are truly bizarre things happening

1803
01:03:38,750 --> 01:03:36,720
and that they've always been happening

1804
01:03:41,109 --> 01:03:38,760
and that we experience them as

1805
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:41,119
extraterrestrial then it might simply be

1806
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:42,640
that that's the way that we understand

1807
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:45,039
them now and it might have nothing to do

1808
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:47,920
with people traveling light years so you

1809
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:50,240
know the whole thing about the seti guys

1810
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,160
when they started off and you know

1811
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:54,319
enrico fermi's question about where are

1812
01:03:57,270 --> 01:03:55,760
they all then if there's that many

1813
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:57,280
inhabited planets

1814
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,119
well it may be that

1815
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:01,119
and this is something i'd be open to

1816
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:03,440
that if there are intelligences

1817
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:06,079
contacting us they may be struggling to

1818
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:08,880
get in touch with us and that's it might

1819
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:11,119
not be extraterrestrials in the way that

1820
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:12,640
we present it

1821
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:14,160
right and

1822
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:16,000
in that case who's more malleable than

1823
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:17,119
kids

1824
01:04:20,950 --> 01:04:18,720
they might all have the same experience

1825
01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:20,960
but what they're experiencing might be

1826
01:04:24,870 --> 01:04:22,079
it's almost like it might be a

1827
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:24,880
manifestation of something it might be

1828
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:26,720
they might be led to the experience but

1829
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:28,559
actually that what's if you and i had

1830
01:04:33,029 --> 01:04:30,319
stood there if you'd filmed it you might

1831
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:33,039
not have seen the same thing right and

1832
01:04:35,829 --> 01:04:34,319
you know again

1833
01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:35,839
more than we haven't got the time to go

1834
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:37,599
into this but if people wanted to google

1835
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,079
various people there's a gun there's a

1836
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:42,720
physicist called gerard tuft i mentioned

1837
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:44,720
his name at doing a talk once and people

1838
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:47,760
started laughing like it was funny but

1839
01:04:52,069 --> 01:04:49,920
he's dutch so it's a dutch name he

1840
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:52,079
believes in a deterministic universe

1841
01:04:55,349 --> 01:04:54,000
basically he's an expert on quantum

1842
01:04:57,029 --> 01:04:55,359
theory

1843
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:57,039
so he's one of these people who's open

1844
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:58,640
to the fact that there may be it's

1845
01:05:01,510 --> 01:05:00,240
almost like the universe will be leading

1846
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,520
us on and

1847
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:03,359
the cosmos is leading us and we're

1848
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:04,720
becoming

1849
01:05:07,829 --> 01:05:06,319
aware at the rate at which we can be

1850
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,839
aware and clearly we're limited by the

1851
01:05:11,109 --> 01:05:10,000
fact that we're human beings and it's

1852
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:11,119
questionable whether we're the most

1853
01:05:14,950 --> 01:05:13,520
intelligent animals on the planet anyway

1854
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:14,960
um

1855
01:05:17,670 --> 01:05:15,760
but

1856
01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:17,680
in that case

1857
01:05:21,029 --> 01:05:19,280
his theater and

1858
01:05:23,829 --> 01:05:21,039
he's no slouch i mean he's got a nobel

1859
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:23,839
prize so he must know what he's doing um

1860
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:25,440
a lot although he's a bit of an outlier

1861
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:27,119
but the the

1862
01:05:31,029 --> 01:05:28,799
the point is that

1863
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:31,039
he's got a quantum theory argument that

1864
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,640
begins to address something that has

1865
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:34,880
been addressed by people who study

1866
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:36,480
related things which are not to do with

1867
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:39,680
ufos so william james i think it was

1868
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:42,720
1902 his book on the um

1869
01:05:47,109 --> 01:05:44,480
basically the varieties of religious

1870
01:05:49,990 --> 01:05:47,119
experience he codified a mystical

1871
01:05:51,910 --> 01:05:50,000
experience that far back right except he

1872
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:51,920
was not talking about ufos he was

1873
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:53,280
talking about people who have

1874
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:55,680
experiences

1875
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:57,680
to do with god manifesting themselves

1876
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:59,680
himself to them or you know those kind

1877
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:01,200
of things but the point he was making

1878
01:06:04,950 --> 01:06:02,799
was that there's there's almost like a

1879
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:04,960
commonality of experience and that is

1880
01:06:08,789 --> 01:06:06,640
the same regardless of which god

1881
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:08,799
manifests himself to you or whether

1882
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:10,559
you're encountering a like a nature

1883
01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:12,559
spirit now that was written in that book

1884
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:14,160
came out in the early years of the 20th

1885
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:15,440
century

1886
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:20,000
talking about flying sources

1887
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:21,599
those things where we might be having

1888
01:06:25,750 --> 01:06:23,440
some kind of mystical experience and

1889
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:25,760
contacting something that we don't

1890
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:29,119
understand make more sense to me as

1891
01:06:33,190 --> 01:06:30,880
for example the school

1892
01:06:35,589 --> 01:06:33,200
sightings than

1893
01:06:37,270 --> 01:06:35,599
intelligent aliens flying light years to

1894
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:37,280
land in africa and then they'll go to

1895
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:40,559
wales a bit later yeah um so it you know

1896
01:06:43,109 --> 01:06:41,760
it's

1897
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:43,119
if you take the if you take the

1898
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:44,960
experience and say well let's take it

1899
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:47,039
out of the context of ufos for a bit

1900
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:48,880
there are probably other explanations

1901
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:51,039
that you could apply to it and again i

1902
01:06:55,029 --> 01:06:52,640
don't know i just those are the cutting

1903
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:55,039
edge ideas you know there are one or two

1904
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:57,119
notable scientists if you look into it

1905
01:07:01,029 --> 01:06:58,720
who are tend to be disregarded by the

1906
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:01,039
ufo community

1907
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:03,359
brian josephson is another one who

1908
01:07:07,109 --> 01:07:05,280
having won a nobel prize looked into

1909
01:07:09,510 --> 01:07:07,119
quite mystical things and they're

1910
01:07:11,750 --> 01:07:09,520
uncovering amazing possibilities which

1911
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,760
they can't prove but they can

1912
01:07:16,789 --> 01:07:13,680
line up logical physics that suggests

1913
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:16,799
that it might be and that that we might

1914
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:18,000
you know we might interpret the

1915
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:20,000
experiences in our own way but actually

1916
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:21,760
we might be being led forward the whole

1917
01:07:28,870 --> 01:07:25,119
time okay rant over on that one

1918
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:28,880
well you know i i believe that

1919
01:07:32,309 --> 01:07:30,240
uh

1920
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:32,319
you you've mentioned a number of times

1921
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:34,480
tonight that you know they've traveled

1922
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:37,760
light years to get here and this is just

1923
01:07:42,789 --> 01:07:40,319
you know speculation on my point uh

1924
01:07:46,230 --> 01:07:42,799
maybe not uh maybe

1925
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:46,240
uh it's not light years to them maybe

1926
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:48,240
let's just say i'm throwing this out

1927
01:07:51,750 --> 01:07:49,760
there i'm not saying i believe it i'm

1928
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:51,760
just throwing this out there

1929
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:53,599
say there is an advanced

1930
01:07:58,710 --> 01:07:57,280
civil civilization that has a half a

1931
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:58,720
billion years

1932
01:08:01,829 --> 01:08:00,480
technology advancement on us they've

1933
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:01,839
been around that long they made it

1934
01:08:05,430 --> 01:08:03,760
without killing themselves like

1935
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:05,440
we might possibly do

1936
01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:06,799
but uh

1937
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:08,799
just say they made it through all

1938
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:10,480
the technology and they're so far

1939
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:13,359
advanced that they figured things out in

1940
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:14,799
physics that we

1941
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:16,799
couldn't even dream of and there's no

1942
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:19,040
such thing as is light travel it doesn't

1943
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:21,520
mean anything just like okay i'm gonna

1944
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:22,799
go there and they go there you know

1945
01:08:26,550 --> 01:08:24,799
somehow

1946
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:26,560
that we can't even imagine how they do

1947
01:08:31,590 --> 01:08:29,440
it so when you keep throwing out this

1948
01:08:33,910 --> 01:08:31,600
light years away it to us it's light

1949
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:33,920
years away maybe it's not to wherever

1950
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:35,759
they're coming from somehow the way

1951
01:08:40,149 --> 01:08:39,040
they're getting here um so

1952
01:08:43,590 --> 01:08:40,159
you know i mean

1953
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:43,600
i'm speculating i realize that but um

1954
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:45,920
but but maybe that's and the things you

1955
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:48,000
mentioned about uh okay they showed up

1956
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:50,719
two saturdays in a row or they showed up

1957
01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:53,120
in any year anniversary i know none of

1958
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:55,600
that makes any sense because why would

1959
01:08:58,470 --> 01:08:57,359
they use our years and why would they

1960
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:58,480
use

1961
01:09:02,390 --> 01:09:00,000
our week and why would they you know

1962
01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:02,400
what i mean so uh so i don't know what

1963
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:04,400
the answers are to that

1964
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:05,759
okay so

1965
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:07,920
we're not as far apart as you'd think

1966
01:09:11,189 --> 01:09:10,239
it's just when i speculate i suppose

1967
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:11,199
it's it's

1968
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:13,520
it's the career academic in me i've

1969
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:15,600
spent

1970
01:09:19,749 --> 01:09:17,759
most of my academic work in life was in

1971
01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:19,759
what we call the humanities in the uk

1972
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:21,440
like i said i used to teach people to

1973
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:23,520
write for a living so

1974
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:25,600
you can't

1975
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:29,279
arguments in those areas what you you

1976
01:09:32,789 --> 01:09:30,960
you can't have deductive arguments where

1977
01:09:34,309 --> 01:09:32,799
that plus that plus that means the

1978
01:09:35,749 --> 01:09:34,319
following thing is definitely true so

1979
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,759
they're always the best amplitude of

1980
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,920
arguments in other words you can you

1981
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:39,600
know you can line up

1982
01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:42,239
the most logical things you can david

1983
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:44,480
clark who's a famous british ufologist

1984
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:46,560
he's fondly

1985
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:49,199
yeah right yeah okay and

1986
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:51,120
he mentions occam's razor quite a lot

1987
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:53,839
but dave's uh you know he's an academic

1988
01:09:56,709 --> 01:09:55,679
as well and it's kind of how we end up

1989
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:56,719
thinking

1990
01:10:01,110 --> 01:09:57,840
so

1991
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:01,120
because the whole thing is just massive

1992
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:03,120
and mystifying the whole ufo thing is

1993
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:04,800
massive and mystifying

1994
01:10:07,910 --> 01:10:06,640
i suppose i've just defaulted over the

1995
01:10:09,669 --> 01:10:07,920
years to

1996
01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:09,679
trying to use whatever logic is

1997
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:11,840
available and where you can line things

1998
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:13,920
up that make sense and you could prove

1999
01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:16,560
them to a certain extent that's probably

2000
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:18,400
the best way to go because

2001
01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:20,880
if you gradually disassemble the whole

2002
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:22,880
thing and say well we can line all of

2003
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:24,960
these up and

2004
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:26,560
we can look in that area and we might

2005
01:10:31,030 --> 01:10:29,280
have the beginnings of an explanation

2006
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:31,040
then what you're left with are the true

2007
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:34,320
mysteries now my guess is if let's just

2008
01:10:38,070 --> 01:10:35,840
say for the sake of argument that

2009
01:10:40,870 --> 01:10:38,080
everybody in the ufo business suddenly

2010
01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:40,880
decided to agree with each other yeah

2011
01:10:44,950 --> 01:10:42,159
it's really going to happen it's not

2012
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:44,960
going to happen yeah you know

2013
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:46,400
around about the time that you know

2014
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:49,199
donald trump and um joe biden go bowling

2015
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:50,800
together probably the same day right

2016
01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:56,390
but if they did if if some look if

2017
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:58,640
somebody just lined weapons up and said

2018
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:00,719
right you're gonna sort this

2019
01:11:04,709 --> 01:11:02,640
then i think a lot of the most

2020
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:04,719
celebrated cases would

2021
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:06,400
they'd fall apart the ones that just get

2022
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:08,080
trotted out on the you know the the

2023
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:09,440
documentaries that the popular

2024
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:11,520
documentaries and stuff but i think we'd

2025
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:13,679
be left with a handful which would not

2026
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:15,760
be the ones we'd necessarily expect

2027
01:11:19,990 --> 01:11:17,520
which would be truly

2028
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:20,000
would remain truly mysterious and

2029
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:21,840
so i

2030
01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:23,360
you know obviously if you do it on your

2031
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:25,600
own you end up trying to make sense

2032
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:26,400
trying to

2033
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:29,040
do that but in a very limited way so the

2034
01:11:32,229 --> 01:11:31,120
whole thing about the saturdays

2035
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:32,239
when

2036
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:35,920
in particular places and there might be

2037
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:38,880
good reasons good human reasons for them

2038
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:40,960
happening i think we have to take that

2039
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:42,800
into the equation so the washington

2040
01:11:49,030 --> 01:11:46,480
sightings in 1952 unexplained

2041
01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:49,040
utterly bizarre or the perfect sightings

2042
01:11:52,790 --> 01:11:50,880
for that particular time

2043
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:52,800
but they've never been repeated and they

2044
01:11:58,470 --> 01:11:55,280
just did happen to occur on two

2045
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:58,480
consecutive saturdays yeah i think it's

2046
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:00,640
i i think it's bizarre that it's ever

2047
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,640
repeated in the first place i mean

2048
01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:04,560
that's one of the things that always is

2049
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:08,159
curious to me like for instance uh when

2050
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,040
there's

2051
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:11,600
well uh my friend lee spiegel that was

2052
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,440
on last week for a little while

2053
01:12:17,590 --> 01:12:15,199
you know he was told to go to north

2054
01:12:20,550 --> 01:12:17,600
carolina by jay allen heineck back in

2055
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:20,560
1978 because everyone was seeing a

2056
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:22,800
triangle in the same place over and over

2057
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:23,679
again

2058
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:25,440
so he flies down there and sure enough

2059
01:12:29,189 --> 01:12:27,120
he's with a bunch of police officers in

2060
01:12:31,510 --> 01:12:29,199
this big triangle

2061
01:12:33,270 --> 01:12:31,520
with uh lights on the corners and one

2062
01:12:35,669 --> 01:12:33,280
under the center comes floating right

2063
01:12:36,390 --> 01:12:35,679
over him and shoots down a beam by his

2064
01:12:37,350 --> 01:12:36,400
feet

2065
01:12:39,510 --> 01:12:37,360
um

2066
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:39,520
you know why why would they be in the

2067
01:12:43,510 --> 01:12:41,280
same place i mean that's another big

2068
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:43,520
question mark why are they

2069
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:44,719
they if they

2070
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:46,320
like you said earlier if they happen to

2071
01:12:48,790 --> 01:12:47,679
travel light years if that's how they

2072
01:12:51,430 --> 01:12:48,800
got here

2073
01:12:55,189 --> 01:12:51,440
why would they focus on one

2074
01:12:57,030 --> 01:12:55,199
place that's not remarkable

2075
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:57,040
you know it's another question to me

2076
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:59,600
well it is but but like i said because

2077
01:13:03,510 --> 01:13:00,960
the whole thing is so massive and

2078
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:03,520
mystifying it it makes sense to me to

2079
01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,679
kind of break things down

2080
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:07,440
i don't know why they'd

2081
01:13:11,910 --> 01:13:09,520
focus on that place a lot of the best

2082
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:11,920
ufo sightings occur in the most unlikely

2083
01:13:17,110 --> 01:13:14,400
places but you know

2084
01:13:19,750 --> 01:13:17,120
if you apply a certain amount of logic

2085
01:13:22,870 --> 01:13:19,760
well it would make sense to us

2086
01:13:25,350 --> 01:13:22,880
that any alien race would probably be

2087
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:25,360
concerned about our ability to defend

2088
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:26,719
ourselves therefore the military

2089
01:13:29,990 --> 01:13:28,239
sightings you know

2090
01:13:31,830 --> 01:13:30,000
but

2091
01:13:35,030 --> 01:13:31,840
it also makes sense to me that some of

2092
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:35,040
the most celebrated military sightings

2093
01:13:37,590 --> 01:13:36,080
um

2094
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:37,600
just to deal with the nature of when and

2095
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:39,120
where they occurred

2096
01:13:42,390 --> 01:13:40,320
just

2097
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:42,400
almost yeah there seemed to be plausible

2098
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,239
explanations as well i mean the famous

2099
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:46,480
one in the uk is rendushan forest which

2100
01:13:50,310 --> 01:13:48,080
is right i was going to bring that up in

2101
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:50,320
a minute but go ahead yeah well it's our

2102
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:53,360
roswell isn't it um

2103
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:54,560
but

2104
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:56,880
you and i would say if i say sal roswell

2105
01:13:59,750 --> 01:13:58,320
you and i would say yes we're probably

2106
01:14:01,990 --> 01:13:59,760
thinking totally different things when

2107
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:02,000
we say yes martin yeah

2108
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:04,320
um i think it's our roswell because it's

2109
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:07,360
got everything roswell has got um

2110
01:14:11,830 --> 01:14:10,320
it's very near a military base it's

2111
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:11,840
you know there is there is a leak of

2112
01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:13,679
information from a significant military

2113
01:14:19,510 --> 01:14:16,640
source charles holt for um reynolds

2114
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:19,520
forest and walter hall for for roswell

2115
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:22,320
um you've got eyewitnesses who totally

2116
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:23,920
disagree with each other you've got

2117
01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:25,920
multiple landing sites when people claim

2118
01:14:30,950 --> 01:14:28,560
there was only one landing yeah um now

2119
01:14:33,270 --> 01:14:30,960
in renfrewshire forest is a little bit

2120
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:33,280
different in the sense that you can

2121
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:35,920
you can visit all three landing sites in

2122
01:14:39,350 --> 01:14:37,600
a matter of

2123
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:39,360
minutes because they're they're hundreds

2124
01:14:41,669 --> 01:14:40,960
of yards apart not

2125
01:14:45,430 --> 01:14:41,679
the

2126
01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:45,440
um

2127
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:48,080
i mean i'm i'm a raven hypocrite where

2128
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:49,600
rendering forest is concerned because

2129
01:14:53,669 --> 01:14:51,760
i've had a hunch about it for a while

2130
01:14:56,470 --> 01:14:53,679
um

2131
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:56,480
the skeptical explanation says that

2132
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:57,520
the

2133
01:15:01,590 --> 01:14:59,840
military personnel that when if if your

2134
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,600
listeners are not familiar with this

2135
01:15:05,110 --> 01:15:03,840
really really simply there was a middle

2136
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:05,120
of the night middle of the christmas

2137
01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:07,760
holidays there were strange lights seen

2138
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:09,040
you're not going to say the lighthouse

2139
01:15:12,390 --> 01:15:10,560
are you

2140
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:12,400
that's one of the skeptical explanations

2141
01:15:15,669 --> 01:15:13,920
yeah right

2142
01:15:17,510 --> 01:15:15,679
nick redfern went public with a book

2143
01:15:19,030 --> 01:15:17,520
last year that basically which which

2144
01:15:21,990 --> 01:15:19,040
does tie up all the loose ends to be

2145
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,000
fair to nick redfern which is that um it

2146
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:24,719
was a an experiment carried out by the

2147
01:15:28,870 --> 01:15:27,280
american military on their own personnel

2148
01:15:31,189 --> 01:15:28,880
and that they gave them psychedelic

2149
01:15:33,669 --> 01:15:31,199
drugs and led them into the experience

2150
01:15:36,149 --> 01:15:33,679
to see how they would cope with it

2151
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:36,159
yeah now that makes that does tie up all

2152
01:15:40,390 --> 01:15:38,880
the logic because that that ties up jim

2153
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:40,400
peniston who doesn't agree with adrian

2154
01:15:44,070 --> 01:15:41,920
bustinza who doesn't agree with larry

2155
01:15:45,030 --> 01:15:44,080
warren yeah are you they're all tripping

2156
01:15:48,070 --> 01:15:45,040
and they're all having their own

2157
01:15:50,550 --> 01:15:48,080
experience yeah well larry warren it was

2158
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:50,560
it was proven that larry warren had was

2159
01:15:55,030 --> 01:15:53,120
not even there he just was repeating

2160
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:55,040
what he heard

2161
01:15:58,790 --> 01:15:56,400
yeah i don't know if you know that part

2162
01:16:00,709 --> 01:15:58,800
of it but that's not new with a big ufo

2163
01:16:01,910 --> 01:16:00,719
case either is it i mean that was one of

2164
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:01,920
the things when we're looking at right

2165
01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:04,800
when when when roswell went mega

2166
01:16:09,590 --> 01:16:07,440
in you know in the late 1990s

2167
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,600
um i remember listening to something i

2168
01:16:12,950 --> 01:16:11,440
can't read just one of the talks that

2169
01:16:15,110 --> 01:16:12,960
came to a conference and i'm thinking

2170
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:15,120
well this is amazing stuff but why

2171
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:18,239
didn't jim ragsdale see frank

2172
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:20,000
the witnesses saw a lot of the same

2173
01:16:23,350 --> 01:16:22,080
things but they didn't see each other

2174
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:23,360
yeah

2175
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:25,679
well let's not stare away too far from

2176
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:27,199
rendelsham because i want to all right

2177
01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:29,040
yeah i want some surrender

2178
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:33,510
when you boil it down

2179
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,000
beyond all doubt the whole memo is true

2180
01:16:40,870 --> 01:16:38,239
the thing about the lights

2181
01:16:42,390 --> 01:16:40,880
um it is unquestionable that the british

2182
01:16:44,870 --> 01:16:42,400
police were called out in the middle of

2183
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:44,880
the night because some of the locals

2184
01:16:49,669 --> 01:16:46,880
reported strange lights and the police

2185
01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:49,679
actually attended this and if you stand

2186
01:16:52,550 --> 01:16:50,480
at

2187
01:16:54,149 --> 01:16:52,560
vic bost's house i mean he's long gone

2188
01:16:56,470 --> 01:16:54,159
but if you stand at his house who was

2189
01:16:57,990 --> 01:16:56,480
one of the civilian witnesses

2190
01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:58,000
you're only looking across one field

2191
01:17:02,390 --> 01:16:59,920
into the forest where

2192
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:02,400
now the ufo trail has a cut out area of

2193
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:04,000
the landing site so you're practically

2194
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:06,800
looking at the most commonly accepted

2195
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:12,709
if you wanted a best guess

2196
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:15,360
i wonder if

2197
01:17:18,790 --> 01:17:17,120
they were having their christmas party

2198
01:17:21,189 --> 01:17:18,800
the night this happened the base was

2199
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:21,199
having his christmas party yeah

2200
01:17:25,110 --> 01:17:22,400
again if you're looking

2201
01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:25,120
for the third on the third night yes

2202
01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:27,199
was it the third or second night no no

2203
01:17:31,030 --> 01:17:28,800
anyway the first

2204
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:31,040
the the first night was the christmas

2205
01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:32,400
party yeah

2206
01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:33,760
um

2207
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:36,640
i don't think so i don't think so

2208
01:17:42,830 --> 01:17:39,920
anyway 28th weren't they they they did

2209
01:17:45,030 --> 01:17:42,840
the the two nights

2210
01:17:46,790 --> 01:17:45,040
and it i don't know what you call it in

2211
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:46,800
the united states but it's boxing day in

2212
01:17:52,470 --> 01:17:50,320
the uk the the 26th of uh december yeah

2213
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:52,480
and

2214
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:54,960
the the most of the base personnel were

2215
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:57,600
at a party so the the actual manning of

2216
01:18:02,149 --> 01:18:00,400
the base was down to a skeleton crew

2217
01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:02,159
you've got practically the longest night

2218
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:04,000
of the year

2219
01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:06,560
just to guess if you wanted to do

2220
01:18:09,669 --> 01:18:08,000
something quite

2221
01:18:11,590 --> 01:18:09,679
undemanding but

2222
01:18:13,189 --> 01:18:11,600
covert it might be a very good time to

2223
01:18:13,990 --> 01:18:13,199
stage an operation

2224
01:18:16,229 --> 01:18:14,000
so

2225
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:16,239
okay at this point

2226
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:19,120
two and two makes five but

2227
01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,760
it may or may not be coincid

2228
01:18:26,709 --> 01:18:23,679
linked to the fact that

2229
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:26,719
not long after that we had in the uk we

2230
01:18:31,590 --> 01:18:30,080
had cruise missiles stationed here right

2231
01:18:33,669 --> 01:18:31,600
and

2232
01:18:36,709 --> 01:18:33,679
it was a hugely controversial thing the

2233
01:18:38,470 --> 01:18:36,719
american air force as part of nato put

2234
01:18:40,310 --> 01:18:38,480
missiles in britain and these were on

2235
01:18:41,669 --> 01:18:40,320
mobile launches so there was military

2236
01:18:43,830 --> 01:18:41,679
sense to it because the whole point of

2237
01:18:45,990 --> 01:18:43,840
these cruise missiles was they could go

2238
01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:46,000
to any random launch site on any given

2239
01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:46,880
day

2240
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:49,840
you would change the plans all the time

2241
01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:51,040
so if

2242
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:52,960
an enemy i.e the russians had an

2243
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,880
incoming strike was trying to take out

2244
01:18:58,390 --> 01:18:56,960
britain's new nato's nuclear defense

2245
01:18:59,910 --> 01:18:58,400
based in britain

2246
01:19:01,750 --> 01:18:59,920
they wouldn't know where these missiles

2247
01:19:03,110 --> 01:19:01,760
were going to you could guarantee that

2248
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:03,120
there would be enough warning to get the

2249
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:04,880
missiles out of the bases take them to

2250
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:06,640
their launch launch sites that day and

2251
01:19:10,310 --> 01:19:09,120
strike back so it was mutually assured

2252
01:19:13,030 --> 01:19:10,320
destruction

2253
01:19:14,870 --> 01:19:13,040
now they were in the uk not long after

2254
01:19:16,149 --> 01:19:14,880
renders from forest and

2255
01:19:17,590 --> 01:19:16,159
what

2256
01:19:19,830 --> 01:19:17,600
it was always going to be controversial

2257
01:19:22,310 --> 01:19:19,840
but what nobody saw coming was that we

2258
01:19:24,310 --> 01:19:22,320
had peace camps outside the two bases

2259
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:24,320
where they were stationed up

2260
01:19:28,070 --> 01:19:26,400
hayford and greenham common so actually

2261
01:19:30,550 --> 01:19:28,080
there were protesters there the whole

2262
01:19:32,630 --> 01:19:30,560
time to stop these things moving

2263
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,640
but just to guess

2264
01:19:36,070 --> 01:19:34,640
it may well be that

2265
01:19:38,229 --> 01:19:36,080
if you were going to test that

2266
01:19:39,910 --> 01:19:38,239
technology and i'm not saying a nuclear

2267
01:19:41,669 --> 01:19:39,920
missile here i'm saying just simply like

2268
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:41,679
if you wanted to give a test drive to

2269
01:19:44,790 --> 01:19:43,679
one of these mobile launchers

2270
01:19:46,709 --> 01:19:44,800
then

2271
01:19:48,470 --> 01:19:46,719
i can't think of anywhere more perfect

2272
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:48,480
than renglisham forest in the middle of

2273
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:50,560
the christmas holidays right

2274
01:19:53,270 --> 01:19:52,159
and if you look at

2275
01:19:59,110 --> 01:19:53,280
today

2276
01:20:00,709 --> 01:19:59,120
so in other words now in the forest

2277
01:20:01,590 --> 01:20:00,719
there is a tourist trail that you can

2278
01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:01,600
walk

2279
01:20:05,590 --> 01:20:03,840
and it goes from a car park but the big

2280
01:20:07,350 --> 01:20:05,600
loop covers

2281
01:20:09,830 --> 01:20:07,360
where the american personnel apparently

2282
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:09,840
went yeah so it passes the east gate of

2283
01:20:14,950 --> 01:20:12,480
the base i.e they left the base from the

2284
01:20:16,629 --> 01:20:14,960
smaller of the two gates went east into

2285
01:20:19,350 --> 01:20:16,639
the forest and then it goes out to the

2286
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:19,360
edge of the forest and rants almost over

2287
01:20:25,270 --> 01:20:23,750
if you're looking for a plausible

2288
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:25,280
explanation

2289
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:27,440
maybe it was nothing more complicated

2290
01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:28,880
than they had one of these mobile

2291
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:30,000
launchers

2292
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:31,440
that they could drive out of the gate

2293
01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:33,280
and all they wanted to do was drive it

2294
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:35,040
into the forest and just

2295
01:20:38,950 --> 01:20:37,360
check the deployment so you'd probably

2296
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:38,960
do it when nobody was going to see you

2297
01:20:41,990 --> 01:20:40,800
you'd have two or three you know trusted

2298
01:20:43,590 --> 01:20:42,000
personnel

2299
01:20:44,950 --> 01:20:43,600
when better to try that than when the

2300
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:44,960
rest of the base is having a christmas

2301
01:20:50,950 --> 01:20:48,080
party um now interestingly when you walk

2302
01:20:54,149 --> 01:20:50,960
the ufo trail you go from the east gate

2303
01:20:55,590 --> 01:20:54,159
you head due east um to the landing site

2304
01:20:57,350 --> 01:20:55,600
and the landing site the one that

2305
01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:57,360
they've the most commonly accepted

2306
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:59,120
landing site from all the reports is the

2307
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:01,280
one that's actually it's cut out into a

2308
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:03,840
big circle in the forest now as part of

2309
01:21:08,790 --> 01:21:07,040
the tourist trail and it's right next to

2310
01:21:11,270 --> 01:21:08,800
the edge of the forest so if you were

2311
01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:11,280
going to take the quickest way to fire a

2312
01:21:15,590 --> 01:21:13,360
missile and get it off to russia would

2313
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:15,600
be to get it to the

2314
01:21:19,510 --> 01:21:17,760
out of the east gate to the edge of the

2315
01:21:21,510 --> 01:21:19,520
forest so that you could fire it without

2316
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:21,520
it hitting the trees on its way out at

2317
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:22,880
which point it's just going to fly off

2318
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:24,080
isn't it

2319
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:25,920
i don't think anybody moved a missile i

2320
01:21:31,270 --> 01:21:28,560
just i just wonder if they did they took

2321
01:21:32,629 --> 01:21:31,280
like just basically the mobile launcher

2322
01:21:35,189 --> 01:21:32,639
out into the forest in the middle of the

2323
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:35,199
night had some technical mishap possibly

2324
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:36,480
something as simple as just getting

2325
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:39,120
stuck in the mud at which point

2326
01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:40,960
they needed other personnel there quite

2327
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:42,719
quickly and light so they can see what

2328
01:21:46,390 --> 01:21:43,760
they're doing

2329
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:46,400
and if that explains what people saw

2330
01:21:51,189 --> 01:21:49,040
from the nearby farms

2331
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:51,199
that was reported to the police okay

2332
01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:52,800
well what about the what about the

2333
01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:54,159
tracks

2334
01:21:58,149 --> 01:21:55,600
it's going to leave for something like

2335
01:22:01,030 --> 01:21:58,159
that it's going to be leaving big deep

2336
01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:01,040
tracks but there are foreign well yes

2337
01:22:05,750 --> 01:22:02,719
but there are forestry vehicles moving

2338
01:22:08,070 --> 01:22:05,760
around there anyway yeah nobody disputes

2339
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:08,080
that there were other military

2340
01:22:13,590 --> 01:22:09,040
what about

2341
01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:13,600
testimony on what he saw now i've stood

2342
01:22:17,430 --> 01:22:15,280
face to face with him and heard him tell

2343
01:22:19,750 --> 01:22:17,440
the story and i don't believe that he's

2344
01:22:21,110 --> 01:22:19,760
not i don't believe that he's lying when

2345
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:21,120
he said this thing looked like an

2346
01:22:26,709 --> 01:22:23,120
eyeball that was kind of bouncing in the

2347
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:26,719
woods and dripping magma like substance

2348
01:22:30,229 --> 01:22:29,040
and then burst into five lights

2349
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:30,239
you know that's something why did the

2350
01:22:34,229 --> 01:22:31,920
other eyewitnesses penniston and

2351
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:34,239
bustinza and everybody have

2352
01:22:37,430 --> 01:22:35,760
what they saw

2353
01:22:39,110 --> 01:22:37,440
they saw they were seeing something in a

2354
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,120
different area they weren't seeing this

2355
01:22:42,629 --> 01:22:41,679
the penis and saw the triangle according

2356
01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:42,639
to him

2357
01:22:47,110 --> 01:22:45,120
um but i when you mention the drugs or

2358
01:22:50,229 --> 01:22:47,120
the possibility that uh

2359
01:22:53,430 --> 01:22:50,239
um nick redfern his idea of all the

2360
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:53,440
drugs uh are you saying or is he saying

2361
01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:54,960
i didn't read his book

2362
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:57,360
that charles halt himself was under the

2363
01:23:00,629 --> 01:22:59,199
influence of this

2364
01:23:02,870 --> 01:23:00,639
also

2365
01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:05,189
so what about the tape when charles hall

2366
01:23:08,310 --> 01:23:06,639
was talking about this thing right over

2367
01:23:10,070 --> 01:23:08,320
their head and beaming down the light by

2368
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:10,080
their feet which he said doesn't look

2369
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,840
like a normal light which is i always

2370
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:13,440
thought was interesting

2371
01:23:16,870 --> 01:23:14,880
yeah

2372
01:23:19,270 --> 01:23:16,880
interesting

2373
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:19,280
so there are a number of possibilities

2374
01:23:23,270 --> 01:23:21,360
okay and again this is this is just me

2375
01:23:24,470 --> 01:23:23,280
saying well

2376
01:23:28,310 --> 01:23:24,480
if you can

2377
01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:28,320
what they're doing and why they might be

2378
01:23:32,310 --> 01:23:29,600
doing it then you may have an

2379
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:32,320
explanation okay

2380
01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:35,040
there are covert operations that have

2381
01:23:39,510 --> 01:23:37,760
been covered up with ufo stories that's

2382
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:39,520
not

2383
01:23:44,950 --> 01:23:42,880
because things have been declassified

2384
01:23:47,030 --> 01:23:44,960
later on so

2385
01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:47,040
i don't know possibly

2386
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:48,639
yeah possibly there's something being

2387
01:23:52,629 --> 01:23:50,320
covered up

2388
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,639
charles hall is covering that

2389
01:23:55,270 --> 01:23:54,560
it would be controversial and you would

2390
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:55,280
still

2391
01:23:59,189 --> 01:23:56,960
if psychedelic drugs were used on

2392
01:24:01,590 --> 01:23:59,199
american service personnel in at the

2393
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:01,600
back end of 1980 these people were young

2394
01:24:04,550 --> 01:24:03,280
then they're only middle age now you

2395
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:04,560
know

2396
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:08,480
where you've misused things and you

2397
01:24:12,629 --> 01:24:10,400
might get sued you'd probably keep quiet

2398
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:12,639
if you possibly could yeah most cases

2399
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:14,800
when there's huge lawsuits coming for

2400
01:24:18,790 --> 01:24:17,280
malpractice of any kind if the people

2401
01:24:20,550 --> 01:24:18,800
who are responsible can just keep

2402
01:24:22,629 --> 01:24:20,560
kicking the can down the road eventually

2403
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:22,639
a lot of the claimants will die yeah and

2404
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:23,840
then they can settle when they can

2405
01:24:26,629 --> 01:24:25,520
afford it and that's happened with me

2406
01:24:29,270 --> 01:24:26,639
you know

2407
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:29,280
military things or whatever yeah okay

2408
01:24:35,030 --> 01:24:31,600
um so i i just think that's a

2409
01:24:37,110 --> 01:24:35,040
possibility with with regard to

2410
01:24:38,310 --> 01:24:37,120
the renders from forest case

2411
01:24:39,910 --> 01:24:38,320
i know what you're saying about the

2412
01:24:41,189 --> 01:24:39,920
different eyewitnesses saying different

2413
01:24:42,950 --> 01:24:41,199
things but

2414
01:24:44,550 --> 01:24:42,960
then we have the same thing with roswell

2415
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:44,560
you know that you have a number of

2416
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:46,960
claimants coming forward some of them

2417
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:49,040
more credible than others

2418
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:51,040
they kind of agree and they kind of

2419
01:24:54,390 --> 01:24:52,719
don't and then when you actually look at

2420
01:24:56,790 --> 01:24:54,400
every fact and line it up and literally

2421
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:56,800
do it um like with the rendelsham thing

2422
01:25:02,229 --> 01:25:00,000
for example if you look at it on if you

2423
01:25:04,870 --> 01:25:02,239
almost map it out in the forest they

2424
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:04,880
don't all correspond yeah it's a similar

2425
01:25:09,270 --> 01:25:06,719
story and it makes sense when you listen

2426
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:09,280
to one person line up one load of facts

2427
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:10,800
then somebody else comes forward and

2428
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:12,239
they were clearly there but they don't

2429
01:25:14,390 --> 01:25:13,360
quite agree

2430
01:25:16,870 --> 01:25:14,400
and so

2431
01:25:18,550 --> 01:25:16,880
when that starts to happen you wonder

2432
01:25:20,709 --> 01:25:18,560
whether the whole thing is based on

2433
01:25:23,350 --> 01:25:20,719
truth or whether actually

2434
01:25:24,830 --> 01:25:23,360
um there's another explanation a much

2435
01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:24,840
more mundane

2436
01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:26,880
one well

2437
01:25:30,629 --> 01:25:28,400
that's maybe just me

2438
01:25:34,070 --> 01:25:30,639
well this is this is a case where we're

2439
01:25:37,990 --> 01:25:34,080
not we can agree to disagree yeah um

2440
01:25:40,550 --> 01:25:38,000
that i i i would i would never bunch

2441
01:25:42,550 --> 01:25:40,560
roswell or any other case in with

2442
01:25:44,550 --> 01:25:42,560
another case myself

2443
01:25:47,110 --> 01:25:44,560
in other words uh because i don't see

2444
01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:47,120
any comparison or any way you'd compare

2445
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:48,159
the two

2446
01:25:51,350 --> 01:25:49,520
um but

2447
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:51,360
um

2448
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:53,520
we don't need to get into roswell

2449
01:25:58,390 --> 01:25:55,600
you know people are so sick of hearing

2450
01:26:00,470 --> 01:25:58,400
uh about no it will it'll go no pun

2451
01:26:01,390 --> 01:26:00,480
intended it will go nuclear if we do

2452
01:26:03,669 --> 01:26:01,400
yeah

2453
01:26:05,590 --> 01:26:03,679
[Laughter]

2454
01:26:07,910 --> 01:26:05,600
well uh i'm going to open the lines and

2455
01:26:09,669 --> 01:26:07,920
now someone did ask about this uh i'm

2456
01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:09,679
sorry uh david i didn't post this up

2457
01:26:13,030 --> 01:26:11,040
earlier but

2458
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:13,040
what do you think about the phoenix

2459
01:26:18,870 --> 01:26:15,360
lights

2460
01:26:21,270 --> 01:26:18,880
i think i've seen the same

2461
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:21,280
documentary programs as you have ufo

2462
01:26:25,270 --> 01:26:22,800
hunters did a big thing about it didn't

2463
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:25,280
they um

2464
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:26,480
there's

2465
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:28,159
there is one explanation

2466
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:30,000
to be honest again because it's a

2467
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:31,840
one-off event and it's it's you know

2468
01:26:35,110 --> 01:26:33,520
it's a bit unusual

2469
01:26:36,709 --> 01:26:35,120
and there is an explanation that

2470
01:26:38,470 --> 01:26:36,719
actually they're much further away than

2471
01:26:39,669 --> 01:26:38,480
you think and they drop their flyers

2472
01:26:41,910 --> 01:26:39,679
dropped by an a

2473
01:26:43,590 --> 01:26:41,920
a group of a tents and there are people

2474
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:43,600
have come forward to

2475
01:26:46,149 --> 01:26:45,440
you know verify that from the military

2476
01:26:47,990 --> 01:26:46,159
so

2477
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:48,000
i think that's a plausible explanation

2478
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:49,920
and i think it goes back to something we

2479
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:52,080
talked about earlier which is that

2480
01:26:55,750 --> 01:26:54,080
um

2481
01:26:57,270 --> 01:26:55,760
the judging distance when there's

2482
01:26:58,390 --> 01:26:57,280
nothing between you and the object in

2483
01:27:00,629 --> 01:26:58,400
the sky

2484
01:27:02,390 --> 01:27:00,639
is actually very very subjective and a

2485
01:27:03,270 --> 01:27:02,400
lot of people get it wrong a lot of the

2486
01:27:05,590 --> 01:27:03,280
time

2487
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:05,600
well what about i have to say this about

2488
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:07,600
that because i i understand part of what

2489
01:27:12,390 --> 01:27:09,600
you're saying and i do agree that there

2490
01:27:15,270 --> 01:27:12,400
was flares that were dropped but i

2491
01:27:16,870 --> 01:27:15,280
believe those i believe that wasn't a

2492
01:27:18,790 --> 01:27:16,880
training exercise i think that was to

2493
01:27:21,030 --> 01:27:18,800
distract the public and to have a reason

2494
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:21,040
for all these reports of the thousands

2495
01:27:25,750 --> 01:27:22,880
of reports that were coming in

2496
01:27:27,590 --> 01:27:25,760
um much earlier in the evening starting

2497
01:27:29,830 --> 01:27:27,600
about eight o'clock something like that

2498
01:27:31,910 --> 01:27:29,840
way before the flares were ever seen

2499
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:31,920
um these people were seeing the craft go

2500
01:27:34,790 --> 01:27:32,960
over them

2501
01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:34,800
and miles wide

2502
01:27:42,550 --> 01:27:38,080
yeah but a lot of those reports

2503
01:27:45,110 --> 01:27:42,560
came in after the lights were seen okay

2504
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:45,120
and at this point let's go to roswell

2505
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:48,239
sort of one year but

2506
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:50,000
wait let just one second i just want to

2507
01:27:55,669 --> 01:27:53,120
say that um the phone line is open um

2508
01:27:57,110 --> 01:27:55,679
uh just because you're skeptical be a

2509
01:28:00,149 --> 01:27:57,120
gentle person

2510
01:28:01,910 --> 01:28:00,159
woman or man uh on the line but uh that

2511
01:28:03,110 --> 01:28:01,920
number is eight five five four seven two

2512
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:03,120
five four eight three if you'd like to

2513
01:28:06,310 --> 01:28:04,960
call in bill is standing by go ahead

2514
01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:06,320
sorry

2515
01:28:11,590 --> 01:28:09,360
no well just one point about roswell

2516
01:28:14,070 --> 01:28:11,600
i'm old enough to have read all the ufo

2517
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:14,080
books that came out in the 50s and 60s

2518
01:28:17,350 --> 01:28:15,360
you know when i was really really young

2519
01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:17,360
they were around

2520
01:28:22,070 --> 01:28:19,679
something people forget about roswell is

2521
01:28:24,550 --> 01:28:22,080
it was nowhere in the ufo literature

2522
01:28:26,830 --> 01:28:24,560
until the late 1970s right the thing

2523
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:26,840
that blew it open was the the charles

2524
01:28:30,870 --> 01:28:28,719
burlitz and bill muer book

2525
01:28:32,390 --> 01:28:30,880
and prior to that jesse marcel went to

2526
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:32,400
the national enquirer didn't he to

2527
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:33,679
report it

2528
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:36,880
about 1978 and he did this when the

2529
01:28:40,229 --> 01:28:38,320
national enquirer were offering a

2530
01:28:42,149 --> 01:28:40,239
hundred thousand dollars to anybody who

2531
01:28:44,870 --> 01:28:42,159
could come up with a conclusive ufo

2532
01:28:46,229 --> 01:28:44,880
story because travis walton went to them

2533
01:28:48,149 --> 01:28:46,239
as well and

2534
01:28:49,830 --> 01:28:48,159
had he not failed the polygraph that the

2535
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:49,840
national enquirer gave him he might have

2536
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:50,719
been

2537
01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:53,360
in for some of that money um i know he

2538
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:54,719
passed a subsequent polygraph and

2539
01:28:58,149 --> 01:28:56,000
everything i don't want to get into that

2540
01:28:59,510 --> 01:28:58,159
one but the the

2541
01:29:00,950 --> 01:28:59,520
the guy that did the polygraph of the

2542
01:29:02,229 --> 01:29:00,960
national inquiry was absolutely

2543
01:29:04,229 --> 01:29:02,239
convinced that he wasn't telling the

2544
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:04,239
truth um

2545
01:29:08,149 --> 01:29:05,679
and

2546
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:08,159
i i think it's significant because one

2547
01:29:13,350 --> 01:29:10,560
thing that happens with big cases is

2548
01:29:16,629 --> 01:29:13,360
that loads of subsequent reports come in

2549
01:29:18,470 --> 01:29:16,639
and completely complicate them yeah

2550
01:29:19,270 --> 01:29:18,480
certainly the case with roswell because

2551
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,280
um

2552
01:29:22,470 --> 01:29:21,040
you know philip corso for example his

2553
01:29:24,229 --> 01:29:22,480
entire best-selling book which sold

2554
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:24,239
about a million and a half copies the

2555
01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:26,080
whole premise of that book is that he

2556
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:28,560
was involved after the event wasn't it

2557
01:29:30,790 --> 01:29:29,440
yeah

2558
01:29:33,189 --> 01:29:30,800
you know so he was involved with the

2559
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:33,199
dead aliens and everything like that and

2560
01:29:36,229 --> 01:29:34,880
you know these people came forward much

2561
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:36,239
later and

2562
01:29:40,870 --> 01:29:39,040
that to me is

2563
01:29:42,870 --> 01:29:40,880
it just sort of beggars belief really

2564
01:29:44,470 --> 01:29:42,880
how did you keep that quiet for that

2565
01:29:46,390 --> 01:29:44,480
long and then suddenly all these people

2566
01:29:48,390 --> 01:29:46,400
come out of the woodwork

2567
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:48,400
well let me ask you this um

2568
01:29:51,590 --> 01:29:50,400
and it brings me back to

2569
01:29:53,110 --> 01:29:51,600
we were talking just a few minutes

2570
01:29:55,270 --> 01:29:53,120
earlier about

2571
01:29:57,270 --> 01:29:55,280
uh randall shrimp forest have you ever

2572
01:29:59,669 --> 01:29:57,280
spoken to someone like charles hall

2573
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:59,679
directly or

2574
01:30:02,709 --> 01:30:01,120
travis walton

2575
01:30:04,470 --> 01:30:02,719
directly or

2576
01:30:06,870 --> 01:30:04,480
people like that have you spoken to them

2577
01:30:08,950 --> 01:30:06,880
directly

2578
01:30:09,910 --> 01:30:08,960
yes

2579
01:30:13,270 --> 01:30:09,920
and

2580
01:30:15,350 --> 01:30:13,280
are you uh all right just uh an example

2581
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:15,360
of someone that you spoke to about a a

2582
01:30:20,229 --> 01:30:17,760
case can you well widely strive it i

2583
01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:20,239
interviewed him a willie streamer yeah

2584
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:21,360
yeah so

2585
01:30:27,189 --> 01:30:22,800
um

2586
01:30:28,790 --> 01:30:27,199
i don't know

2587
01:30:30,229 --> 01:30:28,800
why this but he doesn't know either does

2588
01:30:32,550 --> 01:30:30,239
he um

2589
01:30:35,669 --> 01:30:32,560
no i mean crudely i've spoken to people

2590
01:30:37,030 --> 01:30:35,679
who've um

2591
01:30:39,350 --> 01:30:37,040
i've spoken to people i've had the most

2592
01:30:41,430 --> 01:30:39,360
bizarre experiences you know

2593
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,440
people who've been abducted and in some

2594
01:30:45,350 --> 01:30:42,960
cases

2595
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:45,360
don't want to go public with that but

2596
01:30:49,590 --> 01:30:46,560
and i'm

2597
01:30:51,430 --> 01:30:49,600
i'm where i was originally and i think

2598
01:30:53,750 --> 01:30:51,440
i'm convinced of the sincerity of these

2599
01:30:55,590 --> 01:30:53,760
people reporting an experience i'm not

2600
01:30:57,430 --> 01:30:55,600
necessarily sure what it was that they

2601
01:30:59,350 --> 01:30:57,440
experienced and like i say it's you know

2602
01:31:02,470 --> 01:30:59,360
it happens to me quite a lot you know if

2603
01:31:03,990 --> 01:31:02,480
i do a live talk or

2604
01:31:05,189 --> 01:31:04,000
just occasionally if you meet people and

2605
01:31:07,270 --> 01:31:05,199
they know that i'm interested in this

2606
01:31:08,709 --> 01:31:07,280
they come and report things to me so

2607
01:31:10,310 --> 01:31:08,719
i've spoken to

2608
01:31:12,709 --> 01:31:10,320
i don't doubt the sincerity of the

2609
01:31:14,229 --> 01:31:12,719
witnesses i'm just i'm not completely

2610
01:31:15,590 --> 01:31:14,239
sure that

2611
01:31:17,590 --> 01:31:15,600
to be honest i sometimes think that

2612
01:31:19,189 --> 01:31:17,600
ufology is not doing them any favors

2613
01:31:20,870 --> 01:31:19,199
because

2614
01:31:23,350 --> 01:31:20,880
i saw when i was in a research group

2615
01:31:25,189 --> 01:31:23,360
people would come to us with stories and

2616
01:31:27,510 --> 01:31:25,199
they would the investigator they would

2617
01:31:29,590 --> 01:31:27,520
meet would sometimes be absolutely

2618
01:31:32,229 --> 01:31:29,600
convinced that you know zeta reticuli

2619
01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:32,239
and all the rest of it um

2620
01:31:35,350 --> 01:31:33,280
and

2621
01:31:37,110 --> 01:31:35,360
it doesn't necessarily mean that they

2622
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:37,120
would always get a fair

2623
01:31:41,270 --> 01:31:39,040
you know they weren't investigated by

2624
01:31:44,709 --> 01:31:41,280
professional medical people or

2625
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:44,719
psychologists or anything like that so

2626
01:31:49,030 --> 01:31:47,440
i've met a lot of sincere people i'm not

2627
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:49,040
sure that they've always been served

2628
01:31:52,870 --> 01:31:50,800
well by the people who investigated the

2629
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:52,880
cases afterwards and i think some of

2630
01:31:56,629 --> 01:31:54,880
that combination explains the stories

2631
01:31:59,510 --> 01:31:56,639
that we read in the best-selling books

2632
01:32:00,870 --> 01:31:59,520
that are out there

2633
01:32:02,470 --> 01:32:00,880
what uh

2634
01:32:03,990 --> 01:32:02,480
what would you say

2635
01:32:05,830 --> 01:32:04,000
uh well

2636
01:32:07,350 --> 01:32:05,840
let me put it this way

2637
01:32:09,030 --> 01:32:07,360
what do you think the most

2638
01:32:12,470 --> 01:32:09,040
we might have a call let me just see yes

2639
01:32:14,470 --> 01:32:12,480
we do we have a call i'm going to

2640
01:32:15,590 --> 01:32:14,480
we have two lines i'm going to remember

2641
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:15,600
that thought

2642
01:32:18,229 --> 01:32:16,560
um

2643
01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:18,239
and and i'll get back to you with that

2644
01:32:23,590 --> 01:32:20,800
thought if that comes up and we have uh

2645
01:32:26,310 --> 01:32:23,600
ken calling from los angeles ken you are

2646
01:32:28,870 --> 01:32:26,320
live on the air

2647
01:32:30,950 --> 01:32:28,880
uh yeah i just want to say you know um

2648
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:30,960
that at this point

2649
01:32:36,229 --> 01:32:33,440
uh with all of the revelations with the

2650
01:32:38,870 --> 01:32:36,239
military and the fact that

2651
01:32:41,110 --> 01:32:38,880
people have been seeing these objects in

2652
01:32:44,550 --> 01:32:41,120
our skies for literally thousands of

2653
01:32:47,030 --> 01:32:44,560
years i think we have gone so far beyond

2654
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:47,040
whether they're real or whether or not

2655
01:32:51,590 --> 01:32:48,719
you know they're um

2656
01:32:53,750 --> 01:32:51,600
some um another government we you know

2657
01:32:55,270 --> 01:32:53,760
again it's something that

2658
01:32:56,790 --> 01:32:55,280
we as a public

2659
01:32:58,390 --> 01:32:56,800
don't really know what it is but we know

2660
01:33:00,870 --> 01:32:58,400
that there are people in our government

2661
01:33:03,590 --> 01:33:00,880
who do know what it is so i think we we

2662
01:33:06,149 --> 01:33:03,600
should move past morons like this guy

2663
01:33:08,790 --> 01:33:06,159
here and only bring in people who are

2664
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:08,800
going to expand our knowledge as opposed

2665
01:33:16,149 --> 01:33:12,480
to um hindering you know and and hanging

2666
01:33:17,990 --> 01:33:16,159
on to this ridiculous notion that that

2667
01:33:19,750 --> 01:33:18,000
what people are seeing isn't what

2668
01:33:21,990 --> 01:33:19,760
they're seeing

2669
01:33:24,310 --> 01:33:22,000
the holy catholic okay so just be just

2670
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:24,320
be respectful though ken okay

2671
01:33:29,750 --> 01:33:25,520
no no

2672
01:33:32,149 --> 01:33:29,760
because with this guy he never respects

2673
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:32,159
the other witnesses he wants to try and

2674
01:33:37,189 --> 01:33:34,800
tell people that what they saw isn't

2675
01:33:40,310 --> 01:33:37,199
what they saw so so yeah i have no

2676
01:33:43,350 --> 01:33:40,320
respect for morons for

2677
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:43,360
all right well uh that's i'll i'll take

2678
01:33:47,350 --> 01:33:45,199
that one martin because i'm well aware

2679
01:33:48,709 --> 01:33:47,360
that i'm talking to you know i'm well

2680
01:33:50,709 --> 01:33:48,719
aware that i'm talking to your audience

2681
01:33:52,709 --> 01:33:50,719
and i listen to enough of your podcast

2682
01:33:54,950 --> 01:33:52,719
to know what that's about so first of

2683
01:33:56,790 --> 01:33:54,960
all i'm not i

2684
01:33:58,470 --> 01:33:56,800
i've said a few times

2685
01:34:00,790 --> 01:33:58,480
i'm probably one of the people who would

2686
01:34:03,189 --> 01:34:00,800
say more often than not i genuinely

2687
01:34:05,750 --> 01:34:03,199
don't know we have we don't have ufos to

2688
01:34:07,750 --> 01:34:05,760
study we have reports of ufos reports

2689
01:34:10,229 --> 01:34:07,760
come from people okay

2690
01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:10,239
and i'm not trying to fact

2691
01:34:13,669 --> 01:34:12,719
again i would say the complete opposite

2692
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:13,679
i'm

2693
01:34:19,270 --> 01:34:17,360
arguments about this and that's the

2694
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:19,280
whole reason i'm throwing in

2695
01:34:23,189 --> 01:34:21,280
go and google these people you know look

2696
01:34:25,669 --> 01:34:23,199
at gerard tuft and his ideas about a

2697
01:34:27,910 --> 01:34:25,679
deterministic universe i.e

2698
01:34:29,669 --> 01:34:27,920
we're being led towards understanding

2699
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,679
things but sometimes the way that we're

2700
01:34:34,070 --> 01:34:31,440
being led doesn't make sense to us

2701
01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:34,080
beyond just what we can see

2702
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:36,320
that that's a possibility and you know i

2703
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:38,639
think that's a debate that you follow

2704
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:40,880
you should take on board a lot more um

2705
01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:43,040
there are some amazing books that go and

2706
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:45,280
look at different areas of this you know

2707
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:47,040
reframing the debate which came out

2708
01:34:51,109 --> 01:34:48,960
recently is a book where a bunch of

2709
01:34:53,189 --> 01:34:51,119
academics throw ideas in and they're not

2710
01:34:55,030 --> 01:34:53,199
being skeptical and you know i'm open to

2711
01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:55,040
a lot of those ideas

2712
01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:57,840
so i'm not telling people that i that

2713
01:35:01,750 --> 01:34:59,760
they didn't see what they saw i've said

2714
01:35:05,030 --> 01:35:01,760
that a few times i've met witnesses i've

2715
01:35:07,669 --> 01:35:05,040
met abductees i've met sincere people

2716
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:07,679
um and i'm not disputing the sincerity

2717
01:35:12,229 --> 01:35:10,320
of it i'm just not sure

2718
01:35:13,990 --> 01:35:12,239
that

2719
01:35:15,669 --> 01:35:14,000
i suppose the simple explanations where

2720
01:35:17,590 --> 01:35:15,679
you try to put these all into a basket

2721
01:35:20,070 --> 01:35:17,600
i'm just not sure that they all fit and

2722
01:35:21,910 --> 01:35:20,080
i think sometimes when when we try to do

2723
01:35:23,590 --> 01:35:21,920
that actually what we do

2724
01:35:25,669 --> 01:35:23,600
in the end it becomes a cropper because

2725
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:25,679
they don't all all these experiences

2726
01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:27,360
don't fit in the same place and i'm not

2727
01:35:31,350 --> 01:35:28,960
doubting for a second that people see

2728
01:35:32,870 --> 01:35:31,360
lights in the sky um you know if you

2729
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:32,880
look at project hesterlin i don't know

2730
01:35:36,149 --> 01:35:34,320
how well that's known in the united

2731
01:35:38,709 --> 01:35:36,159
states for example pretty well yeah

2732
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:38,719
pretty well yeah but i met one of the

2733
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:40,800
researchers from that odd gunner road

2734
01:35:44,550 --> 01:35:42,400
ages ago and he's actually mentioned in

2735
01:35:46,790 --> 01:35:44,560
my book and

2736
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:46,800
i mean how in one sense they were very

2737
01:35:51,270 --> 01:35:48,800
lucky these were ufologists who went to

2738
01:35:53,590 --> 01:35:51,280
investigate lights and they could expect

2739
01:35:55,830 --> 01:35:53,600
to have sightings when they were there

2740
01:35:57,750 --> 01:35:55,840
there's no doubt you know the

2741
01:35:59,510 --> 01:35:57,760
lights have been seen all sorts of

2742
01:36:01,669 --> 01:35:59,520
strange things have been seen but

2743
01:36:04,149 --> 01:36:01,679
the ufo debate often

2744
01:36:07,430 --> 01:36:04,159
excludes now the things that were widely

2745
01:36:09,990 --> 01:36:07,440
seen and sincerely seen in the past like

2746
01:36:12,709 --> 01:36:10,000
nature spirits prairies stuff like that

2747
01:36:15,270 --> 01:36:12,719
and yet a lot of those reports actually

2748
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:15,280
correspond very closely with what people

2749
01:36:19,270 --> 01:36:16,800
are now explaining

2750
01:36:22,310 --> 01:36:19,280
coming forward with this ufo report

2751
01:36:24,070 --> 01:36:22,320
so um joe simmons and his

2752
01:36:26,550 --> 01:36:24,080
pancakes at eagle rock i don't know if

2753
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:26,560
people know that case particularly

2754
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:27,600
yeah

2755
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:30,080
now that is utterly bizarre it actually

2756
01:36:34,629 --> 01:36:32,960
has a lot more correspondence with the

2757
01:36:37,030 --> 01:36:34,639
kind of nature spirits and stuff that

2758
01:36:39,669 --> 01:36:37,040
people saw before and it has that weird

2759
01:36:41,430 --> 01:36:39,679
thing that something some object that

2760
01:36:42,790 --> 01:36:41,440
appears to have magical properties when

2761
01:36:44,149 --> 01:36:42,800
you're dealing with the entity that

2762
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:44,159
gives it to you it turns out to be

2763
01:36:47,990 --> 01:36:46,320
really mundane afterwards yeah

2764
01:36:49,590 --> 01:36:48,000
um so

2765
01:36:52,550 --> 01:36:49,600
i would disagree that i'm trying to shut

2766
01:36:53,830 --> 01:36:52,560
the debate down i'm i'm actually saying

2767
01:36:56,390 --> 01:36:53,840
when you look at how these things

2768
01:36:57,510 --> 01:36:56,400
correspond to other strange events and

2769
01:36:59,350 --> 01:36:57,520
you look at how those other strange

2770
01:37:01,189 --> 01:36:59,360
events have been

2771
01:37:02,790 --> 01:37:01,199
understood actually there's probably a

2772
01:37:05,830 --> 01:37:02,800
lot more you can pour into this debate

2773
01:37:08,629 --> 01:37:05,840
that will help us to understand

2774
01:37:10,950 --> 01:37:08,639
right okay well we have jeff

2775
01:37:12,709 --> 01:37:10,960
jeff from indiana you're on the air jeff

2776
01:37:15,510 --> 01:37:12,719
welcome to the show

2777
01:37:18,229 --> 01:37:15,520
right okay well

2778
01:37:23,030 --> 01:37:20,870
come on you are on

2779
01:37:26,070 --> 01:37:23,040
as i said yes

2780
01:37:29,350 --> 01:37:26,080
okay i just want to say uh

2781
01:37:31,270 --> 01:37:29,360
i just can't believe that uh

2782
01:37:34,310 --> 01:37:31,280
the majority of the ufo shows we spend

2783
01:37:37,669 --> 01:37:34,320
more time being skeptics than we are

2784
01:37:39,590 --> 01:37:37,679
examining the facts you know and

2785
01:37:41,350 --> 01:37:39,600
this man here i have respect for him and

2786
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:41,360
everything but if uh

2787
01:37:44,709 --> 01:37:42,800
one thing i got to say right off the bat

2788
01:37:47,430 --> 01:37:44,719
is a few of this

2789
01:37:49,669 --> 01:37:47,440
mistaking a mosquito for spitfire and a

2790
01:37:51,270 --> 01:37:49,679
seagulls rear end for any sort of an

2791
01:37:52,950 --> 01:37:51,280
aircraft you need

2792
01:37:54,629 --> 01:37:52,960
glasses

2793
01:37:57,109 --> 01:37:54,639
i have to tell you that a lot of people

2794
01:37:59,830 --> 01:37:57,119
i will tell you this jeff that uh it's

2795
01:38:02,070 --> 01:37:59,840
very common that birds and seagulls

2796
01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:02,080
flying at night that are catching light

2797
01:38:04,950 --> 01:38:03,760
uh people have reported that many many

2798
01:38:08,950 --> 01:38:04,960
times just

2799
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:13,750
spitfires okay that's that's nonsense

2800
01:38:17,750 --> 01:38:16,229
these things as you possibly can have in

2801
01:38:19,990 --> 01:38:17,760
broad daylight

2802
01:38:22,390 --> 01:38:20,000
40 feet from my face

2803
01:38:24,629 --> 01:38:22,400
i could have hit them with a rock

2804
01:38:27,590 --> 01:38:24,639
they are machines

2805
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:27,600
they are engulfed in a plasma field

2806
01:38:32,790 --> 01:38:31,360
some sort of a plasma extreme voltage

2807
01:38:35,830 --> 01:38:32,800
you can if you see them from right

2808
01:38:38,709 --> 01:38:35,840
underneath the force field is as

2809
01:38:40,870 --> 01:38:38,719
intense you can see the components of a

2810
01:38:43,030 --> 01:38:40,880
machine inside

2811
01:38:44,550 --> 01:38:43,040
and

2812
01:38:45,910 --> 01:38:44,560
they're real

2813
01:38:47,430 --> 01:38:45,920
i i'm not saying they're

2814
01:38:49,109 --> 01:38:47,440
extraterrestrial

2815
01:38:51,109 --> 01:38:49,119
but i can tell you they're machines now

2816
01:38:53,510 --> 01:38:51,119
if they're our government

2817
01:38:55,590 --> 01:38:53,520
uh boy are we

2818
01:38:56,950 --> 01:38:55,600
really being lied to and being kept in

2819
01:38:58,950 --> 01:38:56,960
the stone age

2820
01:39:00,870 --> 01:38:58,960
that they have machinery like this and

2821
01:39:03,510 --> 01:39:00,880
we're still riding around with the

2822
01:39:05,830 --> 01:39:03,520
cars and internal combustion engines

2823
01:39:08,550 --> 01:39:05,840
but they're totally silent

2824
01:39:10,470 --> 01:39:08,560
i saw four of these

2825
01:39:12,149 --> 01:39:10,480
uh crafts

2826
01:39:13,830 --> 01:39:12,159
machines

2827
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:13,840
uh

2828
01:39:17,990 --> 01:39:15,920
for quite a while in broad daylight

2829
01:39:20,470 --> 01:39:18,000
there was a tree

2830
01:39:22,470 --> 01:39:20,480
a tree right there uh that i uh

2831
01:39:23,910 --> 01:39:22,480
estimated the next day when i went back

2832
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:23,920
and thought about the whole situation it

2833
01:39:27,270 --> 01:39:25,280
was about

2834
01:39:29,030 --> 01:39:27,280
30 feet tall and the they cleared this

2835
01:39:31,430 --> 01:39:29,040
tree about 10 feet

2836
01:39:33,750 --> 01:39:31,440
so this is how close they were

2837
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:33,760
and uh

2838
01:39:38,310 --> 01:39:36,560
the most eerie point of it is that

2839
01:39:39,669 --> 01:39:38,320
they're totally

2840
01:39:41,189 --> 01:39:39,679
silent if you wouldn't have looked up

2841
01:39:42,870 --> 01:39:41,199
you'd never know they knew they went

2842
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:42,880
over you but they are brilliantly

2843
01:39:45,910 --> 01:39:44,639
colored they're absolutely beautiful to

2844
01:39:48,629 --> 01:39:45,920
look at

2845
01:39:51,189 --> 01:39:48,639
but they are a machine there are machine

2846
01:39:52,629 --> 01:39:51,199
components that you can see inside the

2847
01:39:54,709 --> 01:39:52,639
force field

2848
01:39:56,470 --> 01:39:54,719
uh most people say why are the photos

2849
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:56,480
always blurred it's because they are

2850
01:40:00,550 --> 01:39:58,960
blurred this this uh

2851
01:40:03,510 --> 01:40:00,560
this ionic

2852
01:40:05,510 --> 01:40:03,520
or uh plasma field around this

2853
01:40:07,990 --> 01:40:05,520
this machine

2854
01:40:09,830 --> 01:40:08,000
makes it look like it's fuzzy

2855
01:40:11,189 --> 01:40:09,840
uh i think when they power down is when

2856
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:11,199
they actually come out and you can see

2857
01:40:14,709 --> 01:40:12,960
the disc or whatever shape they're

2858
01:40:17,270 --> 01:40:14,719
actually in

2859
01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:17,280
but there is an absolute uh

2860
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:19,440
platform force field on the outside of

2861
01:40:23,430 --> 01:40:20,400
them

2862
01:40:26,470 --> 01:40:23,440
but i just wish it just disheartens me

2863
01:40:28,470 --> 01:40:26,480
to hear all the skepticism from people

2864
01:40:30,629 --> 01:40:28,480
when there's been thousands of people

2865
01:40:32,390 --> 01:40:30,639
thousands and thousands

2866
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:32,400
in other words we got a bunch of people

2867
01:40:35,750 --> 01:40:34,080
out here

2868
01:40:38,550 --> 01:40:35,760
that have no idea what they're looking

2869
01:40:40,310 --> 01:40:38,560
at you know and it

2870
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:40,320
it's it's just disheartening to

2871
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:42,719
discredit uh

2872
01:40:44,950 --> 01:40:43,440
the

2873
01:40:47,109 --> 01:40:44,960
police officers and everybody else that

2874
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:47,119
come out and see these things and it's

2875
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:48,960
becoming more prevalent

2876
01:40:53,030 --> 01:40:51,360
um that's all i got to say i'd just

2877
01:40:54,790 --> 01:40:53,040
rather see more positive talk about it

2878
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:54,800
because they're real for crying out loud

2879
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:57,280
they're real all right thank thank you

2880
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:58,800
for the call

2881
01:41:06,229 --> 01:41:00,080
can i just say a couple of quick things

2882
01:41:10,550 --> 01:41:08,950
when i talk about this so

2883
01:41:12,629 --> 01:41:10,560
you know you you introduce me as a

2884
01:41:14,790 --> 01:41:12,639
skeptic and and i am more skeptically

2885
01:41:16,629 --> 01:41:14,800
minded but

2886
01:41:18,870 --> 01:41:16,639
a couple of things first of all simply

2887
01:41:21,030 --> 01:41:18,880
the the mosquito and the spitfire i made

2888
01:41:22,629 --> 01:41:21,040
that clear that was a split second

2889
01:41:25,030 --> 01:41:22,639
you know that that happened and it was

2890
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,040
quite a useful thing because it just

2891
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:26,639
it just shows you that sometimes the

2892
01:41:29,990 --> 01:41:28,000
thing you're looking at if you expect to

2893
01:41:32,470 --> 01:41:30,000
see something you see what you expect

2894
01:41:34,149 --> 01:41:32,480
not what's there and you know it was

2895
01:41:35,910 --> 01:41:34,159
i spent longer talking about it than it

2896
01:41:37,189 --> 01:41:35,920
took to figure it out it was just like

2897
01:41:38,550 --> 01:41:37,199
that so

2898
01:41:39,669 --> 01:41:38,560
and those kind of things happen all the

2899
01:41:40,790 --> 01:41:39,679
time

2900
01:41:44,709 --> 01:41:40,800
secondly

2901
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:44,719
jeff's story is interesting and i've met

2902
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,239
you know just over the years i've met

2903
01:41:50,149 --> 01:41:48,320
quite a lot of people who've seen

2904
01:41:52,470 --> 01:41:50,159
structured craft

2905
01:41:54,310 --> 01:41:52,480
close to i remember i was at an event

2906
01:41:56,229 --> 01:41:54,320
once where a guy from the raelians was

2907
01:41:57,350 --> 01:41:56,239
talking and they've got a they're a

2908
01:41:59,430 --> 01:41:57,360
religious group and they've got a

2909
01:42:01,910 --> 01:41:59,440
particular view about ufos

2910
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:01,920
and somebody got up and reported at that

2911
01:42:05,350 --> 01:42:03,440
meeting

2912
01:42:07,109 --> 01:42:05,360
sincerely that he'd basically seen the

2913
01:42:08,310 --> 01:42:07,119
same craft that's in george adamski's

2914
01:42:11,189 --> 01:42:08,320
book right

2915
01:42:14,310 --> 01:42:11,199
um which has been widely discredited and

2916
01:42:16,470 --> 01:42:14,320
i cannot explain

2917
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:16,480
i can't make sense in my own mind about

2918
01:42:21,189 --> 01:42:18,960
we have loads of sincere reports

2919
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:21,199
the craft of the scene resemble each

2920
01:42:25,350 --> 01:42:23,600
other but at the same time they all have

2921
01:42:28,629 --> 01:42:25,360
idiosyncrasies and they're different and

2922
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:28,639
they change over time um that's one

2923
01:42:32,149 --> 01:42:30,480
thing that keeps me going and you know

2924
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:32,159
if jeff were at a conference that i was

2925
01:42:36,950 --> 01:42:34,320
at i'm i'd be interested to hear the

2926
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:36,960
story but um i

2927
01:42:40,390 --> 01:42:39,199
i don't know and and you know over the

2928
01:42:42,709 --> 01:42:40,400
years i've heard so many of those

2929
01:42:44,470 --> 01:42:42,719
stories and they correspond and yet they

2930
01:42:46,870 --> 01:42:44,480
all have slight differences so i

2931
01:42:50,310 --> 01:42:46,880
struggle to make sense of all those with

2932
01:42:54,870 --> 01:42:52,950
very good well uh thank you we have uh

2933
01:42:57,189 --> 01:42:54,880
let's see oh elton

2934
01:42:59,109 --> 01:42:57,199
elton from oakland is it this must be

2935
01:43:01,430 --> 01:42:59,119
the elton i know from oakland how are

2936
01:43:02,550 --> 01:43:01,440
you elton

2937
01:43:04,950 --> 01:43:02,560
that's right

2938
01:43:07,510 --> 01:43:04,960
it certainly is good to see you

2939
01:43:08,310 --> 01:43:07,520
yeah yeah you know one thing um

2940
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:08,320
one

2941
01:43:14,390 --> 01:43:12,480
make sure you excuse me

2942
01:43:15,830 --> 01:43:14,400
hang on yeah just mute your mute your

2943
01:43:17,910 --> 01:43:15,840
computer or whatever you're listening to

2944
01:43:20,070 --> 01:43:17,920
please

2945
01:43:22,550 --> 01:43:20,080
oh yeah i'm sorry

2946
01:43:24,470 --> 01:43:22,560
you know the uh incident i'd like to see

2947
01:43:25,990 --> 01:43:24,480
what uh he thinks about

2948
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:26,000
chaz clarks

2949
01:43:33,510 --> 01:43:29,760
in new south wales in 2016

2950
01:43:37,590 --> 01:43:34,870
and

2951
01:43:40,149 --> 01:43:37,600
also the west australia school

2952
01:43:43,510 --> 01:43:40,159
phenomenon incident

2953
01:43:44,950 --> 01:43:43,520
where so many witnesses

2954
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:44,960
corroborated

2955
01:43:48,790 --> 01:43:47,119
they saw the same thing

2956
01:43:50,229 --> 01:43:48,800
yeah we're getting feedback from you

2957
01:43:51,350 --> 01:43:50,239
elton there

2958
01:43:56,470 --> 01:43:51,360
so i don't know if you got something

2959
01:44:01,189 --> 01:43:58,470
all right i'm i'm sorry i had to mute uh

2960
01:44:03,430 --> 01:44:01,199
until you get that figured out yeah

2961
01:44:04,790 --> 01:44:03,440
actually if i'm if i'm honest i didn't

2962
01:44:06,790 --> 01:44:04,800
i i got that he was talking about a

2963
01:44:09,669 --> 01:44:06,800
couple of australian cases including the

2964
01:44:13,109 --> 01:44:09,679
the famous school case in australia yeah

2965
01:44:16,550 --> 01:44:13,119
yeah west hall yeah yeah yeah

2966
01:44:18,310 --> 01:44:16,560
um i'm if i'm honest i'm not that up on

2967
01:44:19,990 --> 01:44:18,320
the australian case you still want to

2968
01:44:21,189 --> 01:44:20,000
talk about them in great detail other

2969
01:44:22,149 --> 01:44:21,199
than

2970
01:44:23,350 --> 01:44:22,159
um

2971
01:44:27,350 --> 01:44:23,360
the

2972
01:44:29,430 --> 01:44:27,360
again it's multiple witnesses isn't it

2973
01:44:31,990 --> 01:44:29,440
and you know it's yeah it's like a

2974
01:44:33,109 --> 01:44:32,000
couple hundred witnesses yeah

2975
01:44:34,070 --> 01:44:33,119
so

2976
01:44:35,910 --> 01:44:34,080
you know

2977
01:44:37,350 --> 01:44:35,920
it's up there with the miracle of fatima

2978
01:44:39,430 --> 01:44:37,360
or something like that where a lot of

2979
01:44:44,550 --> 01:44:39,440
people see that

2980
01:44:48,629 --> 01:44:46,390
on that one i don't know enough to make

2981
01:44:50,709 --> 01:44:48,639
an intelligent comment so i'd i'd rather

2982
01:44:51,910 --> 01:44:50,719
not if i'm honest with you

2983
01:44:53,430 --> 01:44:51,920
yeah

2984
01:44:56,470 --> 01:44:53,440
right than anything else if you're

2985
01:44:58,310 --> 01:44:56,480
familiar yeah one other quick one the

2986
01:45:00,229 --> 01:44:58,320
the chas clark

2987
01:45:01,030 --> 01:45:00,239
incident i think you had her on your

2988
01:45:04,550 --> 01:45:01,040
show

2989
01:45:07,109 --> 01:45:04,560
in new south wales in 2000

2990
01:45:08,950 --> 01:45:07,119
yeah it's uh i i can't pronounce the

2991
01:45:11,669 --> 01:45:08,960
name of that incident but are you

2992
01:45:12,550 --> 01:45:11,679
familiar with with her chas

2993
01:45:15,830 --> 01:45:12,560
clark

2994
01:45:17,910 --> 01:45:15,840
again i'm not if i'm

2995
01:45:20,470 --> 01:45:17,920
it happened in south wales and it was

2996
01:45:22,709 --> 01:45:20,480
it's quite a crazy

2997
01:45:24,709 --> 01:45:22,719
incredible story i don't know

2998
01:45:27,189 --> 01:45:24,719
uh you know with the military involved

2999
01:45:29,030 --> 01:45:27,199
and supposedly there was some uh

3000
01:45:31,830 --> 01:45:29,040
shooting down of some type of craft or

3001
01:45:33,350 --> 01:45:31,840
something one to really look into if if

3002
01:45:35,270 --> 01:45:33,360
you want to really look into a mystery

3003
01:45:37,030 --> 01:45:35,280
that's quite quite a story if you want

3004
01:45:40,310 --> 01:45:37,040
to check that one out okay so i'm going

3005
01:45:42,550 --> 01:45:40,320
to tell you i'm going to tell you neil

3006
01:45:45,590 --> 01:45:42,560
nice to speak to sort of disappoint you

3007
01:45:47,109 --> 01:45:45,600
on that i mean i'm i'm familiar yeah you

3008
01:45:49,669 --> 01:45:47,119
know with a lot of cases that the

3009
01:45:51,109 --> 01:45:49,679
australian wants less so i mean i'm i'm

3010
01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:51,119
quite familiar with a few australian

3011
01:45:55,270 --> 01:45:53,520
cases but not those particularly

3012
01:45:56,870 --> 01:45:55,280
yeah that one is one i'm going to tell

3013
01:45:58,950 --> 01:45:56,880
you to google you know how you told a

3014
01:46:01,669 --> 01:45:58,960
few people to google i mean

3015
01:46:03,750 --> 01:46:01,679
as we go actually so many reputable

3016
01:46:06,550 --> 01:46:03,760
witnesses on that one too and so many

3017
01:46:09,510 --> 01:46:06,560
military people involved oh my god it's

3018
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:09,520
amazing yeah hey elton good to hear your

3019
01:46:12,550 --> 01:46:10,480
voice

3020
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:12,560
thank you for the call thank you

3021
01:46:17,510 --> 01:46:14,880
all right yeah good night

3022
01:46:19,030 --> 01:46:17,520
all right so uh we do we could take one

3023
01:46:20,950 --> 01:46:19,040
more caller if someone would like to

3024
01:46:23,270 --> 01:46:20,960
call in that number is up on the screen

3025
01:46:25,750 --> 01:46:23,280
eight five five four seven two five four

3026
01:46:27,350 --> 01:46:25,760
eight three so uh right before i took

3027
01:46:29,270 --> 01:46:27,360
the first call i said i would remember

3028
01:46:30,390 --> 01:46:29,280
what i was going to say and it's

3029
01:46:32,709 --> 01:46:30,400
basically

3030
01:46:35,189 --> 01:46:32,719
uh what would you consider the most

3031
01:46:37,030 --> 01:46:35,199
compelling case of all the ones you've

3032
01:46:39,669 --> 01:46:37,040
looked into what what is the big

3033
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:39,679
question mark for you

3034
01:46:43,430 --> 01:46:41,520
what the big question mark

3035
01:46:45,830 --> 01:46:43,440
yeah the biggest question mark of all

3036
01:46:48,390 --> 01:46:45,840
the cases well

3037
01:46:50,070 --> 01:46:48,400
it depends um

3038
01:46:52,229 --> 01:46:50,080
in terms of

3039
01:46:53,590 --> 01:46:52,239
everything that's ever happened um i'm

3040
01:46:55,990 --> 01:46:53,600
going to disappoint you on this one i

3041
01:46:58,310 --> 01:46:56,000
think the wow signal because there's no

3042
01:47:00,870 --> 01:46:58,320
even brian dunning can't dismantle that

3043
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:00,880
so it must be good right um

3044
01:47:05,669 --> 01:47:04,560
i mean i wasn't expecting that one

3045
01:47:09,350 --> 01:47:05,679
no but but

3046
01:47:14,149 --> 01:47:09,360
it was like 1978 or 73 oh no

3047
01:47:16,390 --> 01:47:14,159
15th of august 1977. look i've even got

3048
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:16,400
a joke explanation for it in my book

3049
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:18,960
it's the day before elvis died right

3050
01:47:22,149 --> 01:47:20,480
i just wonder if the space brothers were

3051
01:47:25,669 --> 01:47:22,159
calling back their representative you

3052
01:47:29,669 --> 01:47:27,590
but the point of the joke is that that's

3053
01:47:31,590 --> 01:47:29,679
as good an explanation as any

3054
01:47:35,350 --> 01:47:31,600
42-second signal

3055
01:47:38,149 --> 01:47:35,360
we don't know what it was the

3056
01:47:40,550 --> 01:47:38,159
accidental causes on earth have largely

3057
01:47:42,870 --> 01:47:40,560
been discounted so

3058
01:47:45,109 --> 01:47:42,880
that to me is one of the more compelling

3059
01:47:45,910 --> 01:47:45,119
things and also

3060
01:47:47,590 --> 01:47:45,920
um

3061
01:47:48,950 --> 01:47:47,600
if you think about extraterrestrial life

3062
01:47:50,950 --> 01:47:48,960
the the

3063
01:47:52,550 --> 01:47:50,960
we may have discovered phosphine gas on

3064
01:47:54,629 --> 01:47:52,560
venus which might mean that there's

3065
01:47:56,950 --> 01:47:54,639
microbial life out there again i think

3066
01:47:59,030 --> 01:47:56,960
that's that yeah that's quite compelling

3067
01:48:00,310 --> 01:47:59,040
there are some amazing cases i know i

3068
01:48:02,070 --> 01:48:00,320
come over as a skeptic and i

3069
01:48:04,950 --> 01:48:02,080
deliberately kind of come on shows like

3070
01:48:06,550 --> 01:48:04,960
this and you know revv it up a bit

3071
01:48:10,390 --> 01:48:06,560
because he tends to drive traffic

3072
01:48:14,470 --> 01:48:13,189
serving intensive self-serving skeptic

3073
01:48:16,950 --> 01:48:14,480
yeah

3074
01:48:18,709 --> 01:48:16,960
well no but it also it tends to get me

3075
01:48:19,830 --> 01:48:18,719
bookings for gigs and stuff like that i

3076
01:48:21,270 --> 01:48:19,840
mean obviously i don't do gigs in

3077
01:48:23,270 --> 01:48:21,280
america at the moment it's a bit of a

3078
01:48:25,189 --> 01:48:23,280
hike with with covet and stuff but you

3079
01:48:28,470 --> 01:48:25,199
know i've spoken to people online over

3080
01:48:32,790 --> 01:48:30,950
so in terms of great cases i was asked

3081
01:48:34,790 --> 01:48:32,800
to produce a top 10 when i did the book

3082
01:48:36,629 --> 01:48:34,800
with top 10 of british cases i think the

3083
01:48:40,229 --> 01:48:36,639
deckmont woods case in britain is the

3084
01:48:42,070 --> 01:48:40,239
best by by a mile um and that's uh

3085
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:42,080
that's are you familiar with that one

3086
01:48:46,390 --> 01:48:44,880
nope nope i i can't say and you i may

3087
01:48:48,390 --> 01:48:46,400
once you start talking about it i mean

3088
01:48:50,310 --> 01:48:48,400
we do have someone on hold just to let

3089
01:48:51,990 --> 01:48:50,320
you know for a call but what's going on

3090
01:48:53,750 --> 01:48:52,000
jackie you know you know what i was i

3091
01:48:54,950 --> 01:48:53,760
even called elton jeff one that was a

3092
01:48:57,830 --> 01:48:54,960
i'm sorry elton if you're still

3093
01:48:59,830 --> 01:48:57,840
listening mate um but really simply with

3094
01:49:01,590 --> 01:48:59,840
it with the deckmark woods case for for

3095
01:49:03,669 --> 01:49:01,600
my money that's the best one and it's i

3096
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:03,679
don't know the the answer on this one

3097
01:49:08,550 --> 01:49:04,960
but

3098
01:49:11,109 --> 01:49:08,560
a forester 9th of november 1979 was

3099
01:49:14,229 --> 01:49:11,119
going about his work he had a bizarre

3100
01:49:16,550 --> 01:49:14,239
experience where a ufo that was hovering

3101
01:49:18,310 --> 01:49:16,560
in front of him that was

3102
01:49:19,830 --> 01:49:18,320
translucent he could see through it but

3103
01:49:22,709 --> 01:49:19,840
it was definitely there

3104
01:49:25,990 --> 01:49:22,719
um it released two other small objects

3105
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:26,000
that flew through the air towards him um

3106
01:49:33,109 --> 01:49:28,960
and they resembled like world war ii sea

3107
01:49:33,910 --> 01:49:33,119
mines he lost consciousness he suffered

3108
01:49:36,629 --> 01:49:33,920
some

3109
01:49:39,270 --> 01:49:36,639
physical and sort of mental damage and

3110
01:49:41,189 --> 01:49:39,280
what's great about the case is that

3111
01:49:42,870 --> 01:49:41,199
um i mean obviously it wasn't great if

3112
01:49:45,109 --> 01:49:42,880
you were him but um

3113
01:49:46,870 --> 01:49:45,119
what's great about the case is that

3114
01:49:49,109 --> 01:49:46,880
because he got home very quickly and his

3115
01:49:52,070 --> 01:49:49,119
wife reported it within

3116
01:49:53,910 --> 01:49:52,080
a short amount of time his doctor came

3117
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:53,920
to check him out and you know confirmed

3118
01:49:57,750 --> 01:49:55,760
that he had obviously been through some

3119
01:49:59,830 --> 01:49:57,760
traumatic event and the local police

3120
01:50:01,830 --> 01:49:59,840
turned up and they treated it as an

3121
01:50:03,830 --> 01:50:01,840
assault so there was a full forensic

3122
01:50:06,790 --> 01:50:03,840
investigation and i do remember this

3123
01:50:08,550 --> 01:50:06,800
case yeah yeah and his trousers are now

3124
01:50:11,990 --> 01:50:08,560
the biggest holy relic in british

3125
01:50:15,350 --> 01:50:13,589
they belong to a guy called malcolm

3126
01:50:17,910 --> 01:50:15,360
robinson who did the investigation he's

3127
01:50:19,750 --> 01:50:17,920
now the legal owner of the trousers and

3128
01:50:24,149 --> 01:50:19,760
i'm not alone in having had my hands in

3129
01:50:27,589 --> 01:50:25,990
like splinters the true cross you know

3130
01:50:29,990 --> 01:50:27,599
you've got to touch him for it to really

3131
01:50:31,910 --> 01:50:30,000
work makes sense but yeah he's

3132
01:50:33,030 --> 01:50:31,920
but seriously there's

3133
01:50:33,750 --> 01:50:33,040
i won't bore you with the whole thing

3134
01:50:35,589 --> 01:50:33,760
but

3135
01:50:37,669 --> 01:50:35,599
the way the trousers were torn was

3136
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:37,679
unusual i mean something strange

3137
01:50:40,629 --> 01:50:39,119
happened to him and nobody knows and

3138
01:50:42,629 --> 01:50:40,639
what there's a brilliant book written

3139
01:50:44,149 --> 01:50:42,639
about it by malcolm robinson and what's

3140
01:50:46,229 --> 01:50:44,159
great about the book is that he gives

3141
01:50:48,950 --> 01:50:46,239
you the case he gives you 16

3142
01:50:51,189 --> 01:50:48,960
explanations that may

3143
01:50:53,030 --> 01:50:51,199
you know to a greater or lesser extent

3144
01:50:55,430 --> 01:50:53,040
may explain it and it's for my money

3145
01:50:57,189 --> 01:50:55,440
that's the best british case

3146
01:50:58,950 --> 01:50:57,199
and if you're unfamiliar in america it's

3147
01:51:01,189 --> 01:50:58,960
easily googled

3148
01:51:04,629 --> 01:51:01,199
interesting uh yeah i'm going to take

3149
01:51:07,510 --> 01:51:04,639
this uh this call really quick jack

3150
01:51:09,990 --> 01:51:07,520
from ohio you were on the line

3151
01:51:12,550 --> 01:51:10,000
and you're on the air

3152
01:51:17,189 --> 01:51:12,560
hey martin hi

3153
01:51:22,870 --> 01:51:18,870
okay hey martin hey neil how are you

3154
01:51:29,350 --> 01:51:24,229
oh okay

3155
01:51:32,790 --> 01:51:30,950
oh what are you asking me what i think

3156
01:51:35,189 --> 01:51:32,800
about him

3157
01:51:37,589 --> 01:51:35,199
yeah luis elizondo and what he has to

3158
01:51:38,790 --> 01:51:37,599
say um just his point of view and the

3159
01:51:41,589 --> 01:51:38,800
people that

3160
01:51:43,109 --> 01:51:41,599
you know study this that you know know

3161
01:51:44,070 --> 01:51:43,119
about aircraft

3162
01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:44,080
and you know

3163
01:51:47,910 --> 01:51:46,080
just what they're seeing you know like

3164
01:51:50,229 --> 01:51:47,920
he's basically saying that what he's

3165
01:51:52,709 --> 01:51:50,239
saying is definitely not a you know

3166
01:51:54,629 --> 01:51:52,719
regular aircraft that we would have or

3167
01:51:56,870 --> 01:51:54,639
any other um

3168
01:51:59,350 --> 01:51:56,880
nation would have

3169
01:52:00,629 --> 01:51:59,360
i i spoke about that quite a bit earlier

3170
01:52:02,149 --> 01:52:00,639
on i mean so

3171
01:52:03,910 --> 01:52:02,159
given that we've only got a few minutes

3172
01:52:06,470 --> 01:52:03,920
i think possibly something we could

3173
01:52:08,870 --> 01:52:06,480
agree on here is that

3174
01:52:11,669 --> 01:52:08,880
if luis elizondo actually delivers on

3175
01:52:13,990 --> 01:52:11,679
the much longer video and the other bits

3176
01:52:16,070 --> 01:52:14,000
and pieces i'd be really

3177
01:52:18,229 --> 01:52:16,080
despite what one of the earlier callers

3178
01:52:19,669 --> 01:52:18,239
thought i would love that to be true i

3179
01:52:21,510 --> 01:52:19,679
would

3180
01:52:22,550 --> 01:52:21,520
i think they're presenting intriguing

3181
01:52:24,790 --> 01:52:22,560
evidence

3182
01:52:27,350 --> 01:52:24,800
i've been around and you know i've seen

3183
01:52:28,790 --> 01:52:27,360
the great cases in in ufology and the

3184
01:52:31,270 --> 01:52:28,800
ones that were always going to convince

3185
01:52:33,750 --> 01:52:31,280
the out and out skeptics were presented

3186
01:52:35,510 --> 01:52:33,760
and a lot of them crashed and burned so

3187
01:52:37,350 --> 01:52:35,520
that's why i'm maybe more skeptical

3188
01:52:38,870 --> 01:52:37,360
about the three videos and and the

3189
01:52:40,870 --> 01:52:38,880
promise of other stuff and we haven't

3190
01:52:42,550 --> 01:52:40,880
talked about it tonight but uh there's a

3191
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:42,560
guy mentioned in my book a blog called

3192
01:52:47,910 --> 01:52:46,320
ralph noyes n-o-y-e-s who was in in uk

3193
01:52:49,589 --> 01:52:47,920
ufology for years

3194
01:52:51,589 --> 01:52:49,599
i mentioned him in the context of louis

3195
01:52:53,990 --> 01:52:51,599
alexander because ralph noyes was a

3196
01:52:56,070 --> 01:52:54,000
ministry he was spent a lifetime in the

3197
01:52:57,990 --> 01:52:56,080
ministry of defense and he left with a

3198
01:53:00,870 --> 01:52:58,000
very high rank and i remember him

3199
01:53:03,430 --> 01:53:00,880
telling us it at a a research meeting

3200
01:53:05,430 --> 01:53:03,440
one time that you know he'd seen videos

3201
01:53:07,589 --> 01:53:05,440
that have never been made public he was

3202
01:53:09,189 --> 01:53:07,599
convinced of two things

3203
01:53:11,750 --> 01:53:09,199
number one that the british military

3204
01:53:14,149 --> 01:53:11,760
knew that there was strange phenomena

3205
01:53:15,830 --> 01:53:14,159
out there to be investigated number two

3206
01:53:18,709 --> 01:53:15,840
that they'd concluded they were not

3207
01:53:20,629 --> 01:53:18,719
extraterrestrial and ralph saw gun

3208
01:53:22,629 --> 01:53:20,639
camera footage which is known to exist

3209
01:53:26,229 --> 01:53:22,639
from a military fighter strange object

3210
01:53:28,629 --> 01:53:26,239
in the sky and he saw this in 1970

3211
01:53:30,709 --> 01:53:28,639
um and it's never been i hate to have to

3212
01:53:33,430 --> 01:53:30,719
do this to you but we are right out of

3213
01:53:36,310 --> 01:53:33,440
time and another live show is coming up

3214
01:53:39,350 --> 01:53:36,320
so uh but thank you so much for your

3215
01:53:41,830 --> 01:53:39,360
participation participation tonight

3216
01:53:43,430 --> 01:53:41,840
okay all right thank you very much

3217
01:53:45,350 --> 01:53:43,440
thanks everybody even the ones that

3218
01:53:46,149 --> 01:53:45,360
weren't convinced by me all right all

3219
01:53:48,629 --> 01:53:46,159
right

3220
01:53:50,390 --> 01:53:48,639
yeah cheers martin yes take care now

3221
01:53:52,070 --> 01:53:50,400
yeah thank you

3222
01:53:53,910 --> 01:53:52,080
all right everyone so that's it for our

3223
01:53:55,350 --> 01:53:53,920
show this evening thanks for watching or

3224
01:53:57,189 --> 01:53:55,360
listening however you're doing it and

3225
01:54:00,790 --> 01:53:57,199
next week i'll be on the west coast but

3226
01:54:02,470 --> 01:54:00,800
i have dr bob gross on the show and so

3227
01:54:03,910 --> 01:54:02,480
thanks once again for everyone behind

3228
01:54:05,830 --> 01:54:03,920
the scenes and all the ones those who

3229
01:54:09,300 --> 01:54:05,840
support the show remember to keep your

3230
01:54:18,620 --> 01:54:09,310
eyes to the sky